Impending Drug Positives

Whaaat? wrote:

Oldtimefan wrote:

His WR is untouchable because it isn't clean.

Really? Why didn't Tyson Gay, or any other doper break it then?

Because a doped up guy with superior talent can run faster than a doped up guy with inferior talent. Are you really that stupid?

HC wrote:

Whaaat? wrote:

Really? Why didn't Tyson Gay, or any other doper break it then?

Because a doped up guy with superior talent can run faster than a doped up guy with inferior talent. Are you really that stupid?

Finally! Thanks for unintentionally confirming my point. He is a superior talent, period! Never failed a test, never been accused or involved in any scandal.

"Never failed a test" means nothing.

Marion Jones never failed a test either.

She clearly used.

Whaaat? wrote:

HC wrote:

Because a doped up guy with superior talent can run faster than a doped up guy with inferior talent. Are you really that stupid?

Finally! Thanks for unintentionally confirming my point. He is a superior talent, period! Never failed a test, never been accused or involved in any scandal.

I know you truly want to believe Bolt is clean, but statistically is way beyond what is possible as world class athletes improve. History has shown repeatedly the only way we see improvement like this is with PEDS.

Remember Lance was a gifted prodigy who was so great because he was a genetic freak. How true did that turn out to be? I am not saying Bolt isn't talented, I'm just saying it is impossible to have that kind of improvement in 100 meters. Think FloJo

The great white hope Lemaitre like all the other great white hopes before

him,is turning out to be the great white fraud.Hasn't broken 10 or 20 in 2yrs.

ZingZoon wrote:

"Never failed a test" means nothing.

Marion Jones never failed a test either.

She clearly used.

Silly comparison...

The only thing that people use to accuse Bolt is the level of his performance, which they can't believe.

Marion Jones had a million reasons to be suspected even from her high school days. Her doper husband, skipping drug tests, Balco, Victor Conte dispensing, failed Sample A for EPO, being seen injecting drugs etc. It goes on and on.

What great improvement?? He ran sub-20 as a kid (what, high schooler or something you'd say? 16? Same age as Mary Cain?) once he grew to his full height. After regaining the co-ordination loss that comes from switching to a full adult form and filling out he then improved say 0.7 over 200m, 0.35 over 100m. It is likely he was just sub-10 or could have ran it in the 100 for a long time before 2008. Please don't harp some 10.03 time at me in response, which was his first competitive 100m race.

You could say that others like Gay have had bigger improvements than Bolt, especially when they were precocious, but not as precocious as to have WRs from age 15 onwards.

Would you call LeBron James, Michael Jordan out for a similar 'improvement' to be the world's best? I don't know about Basketball but I imagine that they were always great and stood out at every age group? I've heard that about LJ I think to be fair.

LeBron has been linked to the Biogenesis scandal. So your argument holds no water. You are holding onto the dream of what is Track and Field. When Bolt gets busted you will become as cynical as the rest of us. The sport's legitimacy will be ruined like cycling if this occurs.

Heh, sounds like I picked the one guy I didn't want to pick then, lol. I should have said someone like Tiger Woods then I guess. But I saw the other day that LeBron's height helped make him great so I thought there was a comparison there (I remember hype about James vs Bryant on draft picks 5-10 years ago?).

Fair enough. If Bolt gets busted then we'll just go back to winning times around 9.85-10.05. Personally I'm hoping Dasaolu can medal in this era haha, although he seems to be protecting himself from injury and missing lots of great races like London DL today. Weir looks like a rake and has run 19.79/19.89 today. Felix looks like she is finally starting to show signs of some decline after 10 years at the top.

On BBC yesterday there was an interesting segment of Jason Gardener, Donovan Bailey and Colin Jackson all pressing for lifetime bans in a discussion on doping.

Whaaat? wrote:

Anyone but Bolt, who gets busted is a "sacrificial lamb". That seems to be the mantra of many as I read through these threads. It's become clear that a good number want Bolt busted because...

They feel hopeless as long as he is around

He is not American (how dare these Jamaicans)

His WR is untouchable {Thanks to (how dare I say)}

He is almost impossible to beat in championships {Ohh, the irony - the one year Bolt is vulnerable two of his biggest threats test positive}

They want white sprinters to rise - Lemaitre LOL

He is not American

He is not American

He is not American

I hate to break it to you... the dude is clean and entirely fearless of drug tests. Even when he is gone, there are many more coming right behind him in Jamaica.

The timing of these busts on Tyson Gay and Powell couldn't have came any worse when it comes to trying to protect Usain Bolt. The only difference between this and the Carl Lewis case was that the world championship was not ran when the results came out.

Think about it (key word - vulnerability)

With Tyson Gay down, am I right in thinking that Jim Hines was the last clean American male 100 metres winner at The Olympics and/or World Championships? Scary and depressing.

kipwot wrote:

Hmmmm ..what about the list of kenyans who are also in the pending file ... add to that Turkey/Russia/Jamaica etc etc and there's a whole chunk of the athletics world in the game

Yeah,

...and that expose by that German Doctor who did some underground investigation on EPO in Nairobi pharmacies.

What happened?

I meant journalist-Hajo Seppelt.

So you think improving a 100 meter best by .35 for a world class athlete is within the range of possibility? It is nearly unheard of in a career let alone one season! So by your logic if Marvin Bracy showed the same type of improvement this year it would be because he is mature now? Think how absurd that sounds. It's not as if Bolt ran 10.03 as a 17 year old and gradually chipped it down at age 21 to 9.69. No he did that in one SEASON! No one in history has shown that kind of improvement without PEDS.

NativeSon wrote:

kipwot wrote:

Hmmmm ..what about the list of kenyans who are also in the pending file ... add to that Turkey/Russia/Jamaica etc etc and there's a whole chunk of the athletics world in the game

Yeah,

...and that expose by that German Doctor who did some underground investigation on EPO in Nairobi pharmacies.

What happened?

this, I keep hearing about all these drug positives. Is it just hear-say or is someone sitting on them?

Oldtimefan wrote:

So you think improving a 100 meter best by .35 for a world class athlete is within the range of possibility? It is nearly unheard of in a career let alone one season! So by your logic if Marvin Bracy showed the same type of improvement this year it would be because he is mature now? Think how absurd that sounds. It's not as if Bolt ran 10.03 as a 17 year old and gradually chipped it down at age 21 to 9.69. No he did that in one SEASON! No one in history has shown that kind of improvement without PEDS.

I don't know whether huge improvements are within the range of possibility, but if SAFP was clean in 2008 then I guess they are... Shelly-Ann Fraser recorded a new PR in Brazil on May 22, 2008, of 11.28 (+0.6m/s), breaking her previous PR of 11.31. Less than 3 months later on August 17th her PR had improved to 10.78 (+0.0) in winning Olympic Gold. That's a full 0.5 sec improvement...

Whaaat? wrote:

ZingZoon wrote:

"Never failed a test" means nothing.

Marion Jones never failed a test either.

She clearly used.

Silly comparison...

The only thing that people use to accuse Bolt is the level of his performance, which they can't believe.

Marion Jones had a million reasons to be suspected even from her high school days. Her doper husband, skipping drug tests, Balco, Victor Conte dispensing, failed Sample A for EPO, being seen injecting drugs etc. It goes on and on.

So you think Marion was doping in HS?

Whaaat? wrote:

Silly comparison...

The only thing that people use to accuse Bolt is the level of his performance, which they can't believe.

Whether fair or not, there are some people who also consider his rapid improvement from 2007 to 2008, combined with the noticeable increase in muscularity and definition during the same time period.

luv2run wrote:

So you think Marion was doping in HS?

Yes. She faced doping charges in high school and was defended by Johnnie Cochran.