HOW DID MO FARAH GET SO GOOD?

3.28 runners show some promise at a young age, runners like Nick Willis who is "only" a 3.30 runner still run 3.35 when way out of shape, Mo could never trouble 3.38 for years of elite training and now he runs this? The 5km stuff was dodgy, the 3.28 is laughable. Old Mo just doesn't get tired anymore, and it's just because he trains SO hard, and has his nutritional balance just right... just like Lance did, just like Victor Conte did, remember how hard those Chinese swimmers were training.? If it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck it's probably a duck...

As Canova says, the 90's was the time when there was money for running fast times on the track.

Even then, the 1500 metres specialists (probably juiced) rarely hit 3.28.

And this was his opening 1500 - it would be normal to have a few efforts at a given distance in a season before SMASHING your PR.

I've been following track for many years and this is up there with the most bizarre performances I've ever seen.

For those who don't really know Mo's history:

8:47 3000 age 14

8:16 3000 age 16

14:05 5000 age 17

1:48.69 800 age 20.

13:09.4 5000 as far back as 2006 age 23

Very rarely ( if ever) beaten domestically in any age group as a kid on road or CC. Usually fastest leg in National and Southern road & CC relays through all the age groups.

WhyNot? wrote:

It doesn't add up.

This guy, who hadn't previously sniffed 3:30 in 30 years of life - suddenly is the 4th fastest 1500m ever?

I can understand with better training methods you can improve your AEROBIC fitness and bring those PRs down, but, in general, you are born with a certain amount of sprint ability. You can't improve on it. Certainly not at 30 after doing years - decade+ - of track workouts prior.

He mentioned he improved only 1%-2% over the years and that he's always been around. His 3:28 PR is way over 2% from when he joined Salazar.

I am not necessarily saying he is doing anything illegal but it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that he's taking something that is legal today but could be illegal in 5 years.

It's a 1500m not a sprint. When you compare his 3.28 to his 400 pace, my 1500 PB compared to my 400 pace, is better 'aerobically' than his.

So that screams drugs or good coaching. You opt for drugs, I am saying these people are hyper-talented, so match that with good coaching and this times are not really unrealistic. Once again, go look at their times as juniors. You can't even fathom that level of talent, so although you think my analysis is obtuse, I believe your inight is ignorant as you clearly don't understand the level of talent we are talking about.

themanontherun wrote:

Increased speed on daily runs from ~7:00 miles to 5:30-6:00 pace.

Began working out in the gym with high-weight/low-rep compound lifts (squat, deadlift, etc.) and a highly periodized transition to turn that strength into power, and subsequently into speed.

A better training partner.

Better recovery methods, ie. AlSal's "gimmicks," which allow him to absorb all of the above.

Working on mechanical changes in sprinting, more efficient at high speeds, better top end power (especially combined with the lifting mentioned above).

Darren Treasure (the unsung hero of NOP).

Giving that fantasic 13 second 100m speed! Not sure how he keeps it going though

His top speed for a flying 100 would be 11.9-12.0 He has lots of fast oxidative muscle fibers, as we all do. With practice it is possible to use them in a more efficient sequence at the end of a race.

Simple really, but beyond the imagination of the typical letsrun poster.

Before Mo went to Salazar he was coached by Alan Storey, Storey coached Sonia O'Sullivan to Olympic silver (beaten by a cheat), WXC double gold, he coached Mike Mcleod to Olympic Silver in LA (beaten by a cheat in the 10k), he also coached guys like Gary Staines, Euro silver medallist, 2.09 marathoner, Hugh jones London Marathon winner, 2.09 marathoner.... the list goes on and on...

Whilst Storey was coaching him he was living in a house with Micah Kogo and several other 'world leading' Kenyans, he trained with Mottram at the peak of his powers... he went to Kenya, he went to Font Romeau, yet apparently he was doing everything wrong????

During this time Mo was a good runner, he was prob top 15 in the world at 5k, he lacked serious pace ina fast finish. Yes he had been a good junior and young senior but certainly didn't look like being the best all round distance runner the world has ever seen, he was no better than Chris Thompson and others who fell by the way side. Yes he ran good relay legs in national champs and he was Britain's best distance runner. He was a 3.36/7/13.10/20 guy, exceptional some might say but at the time not good enough to win major medals.

I've run for years, I've tried numerous ways of training, I've been very dedicated, I've swapped things around, added cross training. I've run at national level and I'm aware that as you fulfill your potentail even at my level you struggle to 'maintain', progress is not a continual upward curve, pb's change by the odd second, fractions of a second.

I don't get it.

Nope not buying it. Ritz was better in high school than Mo Farah was in high school. The 3:28 either means he is a better 1500m runner than he is 5/10000m runner or he is on something. The reason people aren't buying it is because most would think he would have crushed the 5 and 10 records. Yeah Geb was a 5/10k guy that had a bunch of WRs before that race. I think when he got done running that 3:28 later that night Salazar may have talked to him and said Why did you run that fast? Mo you were supposed to make it believable! Now people are going to know you are on something!

curiosity wrote:

aside from kiprop he could prob beat everyone from 1500-HM

sometime tell me how this transformation occured

Positive mental imagery. You should try it sometime. I think I'm going to be a billionaire, I picture it, and soon it will happen.

You don't get what? He learned to finish fast. His confidence improved, he get hungry to be the best in the world. What don't you understand?

Observationalist wrote:

You obviously don't know who Mo trained with before because they are all better than Galen Rupp. And, Mo still spends some time in Kenya training with his old group even while he's under Salazar.

http://pacesportsmanagement.flowebsite.com/photo/672284/photoalbum/445630#ad-image5

"Faster" training partner and "better" training partner are not synonymous.

What age is a junior at High School? Mo ran 8:47 aged 14, are you saying Ritz was quicker than that at the same age?

According to Wickipedia a Junior is 16/17. At 16 Mo (aged 15 at start of the school year) ran 8:16.

So what times did Ritz run, at what age? School year is irrelevant.

Runners don't all improve at the same rate, on a linear line. Salazar's training has obviously benefited Mo more so than Ritz and Rupp. It's obvious Mo is in the best shape of his life with the Olympic double, the super fast closes from recent races, and now the blazing 1500. Anyone just comparing times from recent years are not taking all of these factors into account. Mo will surely better his 5000 PR in a fast race after World Champs. Then all the naysayers can scream more about how "doped" he is.

why not?? wrote:

You don't get what? He learned to finish fast. His confidence improved, he get hungry to be the best in the world. What don't you understand?

We're going backwards here, but it is important because those of us "seeing" have arrived here because of accumulation.

Again. Farah announces his switch to Salazar on February 18th, 2011. Two weeks later Mo runs 8:02 and then 7:53 to win the European Indoor 3000 against B-list runners.

-- March 20 (in reality less than one month w/ Salazar) he runs NYC Half Marathon in 60:24; Rupp is 3rd in 60:30. A strong debut and can't give too much credit to Salazar. For comparison, on this exact day Tadesse runs 58:31 to win Lisbon Half.

-- May 30 wins Bupa London 10K in 29:15 against B/C-list runners Nothing shocking

-- June 3 wins Pre 10,000m in 26:46.57 against A-list, including Tadesse in 26:51 an out of nowhere result much like the recent 3:28, the world was like, "Mo who? He ran what? Like a .45 PB" *Definitely not the Mo beaten by one shoe 3 months earlier.

-- July 10 wins Aviva 5000m in 13:06.14 (his 3rd fastest ever at the time / Rupp 2nd in 13:06.86; good field but the bigger ? is Rupp's tail for 2nd.)

-- July 22 wins Monaco 5000m in 12:53.11 (over A-list and his fastest ever / Rupp DNF First thought that this is not just a better trained, more hungry Mo, but a physiologically different Mo.

-- July 31 wins UK Champs 5000m in 14:00.72

-- Aug 5 wins Aviva London 3000 in 7:40.15

-- Aug 28 is second in 10,000m Daegu in 27:14.07 (outkicked, but only 1st time since one-shoe Gebremeskel)

-- Sep 1 wins 5000 Prelim Daegu in 13:38.03 (sit and kick)

-- Sep 4 wins 5000 Final Daegu in 13:23.36 (sit and kick)

-- Sep 17 wins Great North City Games 2 mile in 8:38

Mo's 2011 season raised flags the same way the one-off 3:28 felt. He was no junior phenom like the other names that dominate the top distance times. He was no El Guerrouj, Bekele, Alamirew, Gebresellasie. He wasn't even faster than Rupp at 18. Yet suddenly a change to Salazar late Feb 2011 and he's world champ/Olympic Champ? And Galen Rupp is suddenly a threat too?

Then Salazar is the best coach in the world. It's just a shame Galen had to wait a decade for it to happen, whereas Mo seat-time was a few months.

curiosity wrote:

aside from kiprop he could prob beat everyone from 1500-HM

sometime tell me how this transformation occured

good question - how could he become so good?

At the age of 30 he became the 6th fastest runner ever over 1500m. In his 3rd event (4th if you count the 3000m). And I really thought he can do some great things in near future in the Half-Marathon. 1500m is - (until Friday I thought so, maybe I have to change here) - in reality his 5th best event. Now he is Nr. 6 all-time. His PB until 2008 (age 25) was 3:38, now it's 3:28 high. I have never heard something similar in the history of distance running, at least I can't remember. Maybe 3:38 was not his limit in 2007 or 2008, but until 2006 I don't think he could have run significantly faster.

I will not anymore be surprised what will be next in his career. 1:44 over 800m? Why not. 26:30 over 10k soon after? No shock anymore. Or winner of the London Marathon next year. Or a World Record (also 5000m will be really difficult, at the moment I still doubt it). Or if he soon declares his career as finished.

Some of his races are here:

And parts of his very unusual career are to find here:

It's far from complete, and any addition/correction is much appreciated.

Farah's level now becomes Gebrselassie qualities - but unlike him, his progression is far from straight.

Indeed - how could he become so good?

Looks like he ran a 27:44 road 10k and then a 27:28 10,000m 6 days apart in 2010. So low 27 fitness seems reasonable for that year with two races back to back like that. Popping a 26:46 doesn't seem like a stretch with another year of training.

You don't 'learn to finish fast' you are either fast or you are not, hence the reason we have 100 meters runners. You don't go from being the guy who was outkicked in every race to being the best kicker in the world.... or if it happens show me another example?

He wan't hungry to be the best in the world when he had a world class coach, lived with the world record holder for 10k on the road and trained with him? Was Micah Kogo not setting a good enough example?

Get real, I've seen Mo outkicked in a 3.45 1500 by a 3.41 guy less than 4 years ago.

BedfordScouse wrote:

What age is a junior at High School? Mo ran 8:47 aged 14, are you saying Ritz was quicker than that at the same age?

According to Wickipedia a Junior is 16/17. At 16 Mo (aged 15 at start of the school year) ran 8:16.

So what times did Ritz run, at what age? School year is irrelevant.

First of all, never say "According to Wikipedia..." I am Wikipedia; you are Wikipedia. Just do the research yourself, or at the very least, find out where Wikipedia got the information from in the sources cited.

AGE 14/15

@ 15 Ritz ran 9:30 for 3200

@ 14 Mo ran 8:47 for 3000

Fairly even. Mo doesn't have any records with UK Athletics for 1998 and I'm not aware of data for a year 8 Ritz.

AGE 16

Ritz ran 4:14 for 1600 & 8:58 for 3200

Mo ran 4:12 for mile & 8:16 for 3000

Advantage Mo

AGE 17

Ritz ran ran 8:41 for 3200

Mo ran 8:12 for 3000m

Advantage Ritz

Does this suffice?