Props to Joe Stilin for calling USATF out!

ConfusedHSer wrote:

In fairness to Texas, Stilin didn't compete for them outdoors, because he was out of eligibility,

John McDonnell would have stood up for one of his Hogs, with remaining eligibility or not. Not the same in Texas?

coach d wrote:

There's your answer. In this year's USATF Nationals, a number of 100m provisionals got accepted, enough to fill up the heats. Same for 800.

But it seems like provisional distance athletes only get entry if they are sponsored by Nike. Do a search for "Gouchergate."

Stillin's coach screwed up. He should have told Stillin: If you don't have the A standard and don't get accepted before the meet, DON'T GO. You will NOT get in. Coaches that actually try to develop athletes don't like it, but that's the way it is.

Don't be such a coward. Stilin and his coach is not the problem here and its great that he and others tried to get into the 5000. If nobody tries to do anything about the problem it will never improve.

Csls wrote:

When has Joe Stilin ever led a race in his life, including anything in his conference? Typical Longhorn. He didn't qualify, he shouldn't run. And way to bash Nike, when you wear a Nike singlet. Get a clue, no wonder their program is about to get turned upside down.

When did USATF and Nike become the same?

Why should the B qualifiers in the 5k NOT think they may get the chance to compete if there are scratches?

Were the other events that had B qualfiers set up in advance of the Trials?

I would think a simple 24 hour declare window could be implemented. If you qualified with the "A", the day before your event you declare your intent of competing the next day. If you have the "B" you also show up and report your willingness to compete if there are scratches. 30 minutes later, a revised heat sheet is made available with the fastest "non-A(s)" filling the vacancies.

Why would this not work?

The posters who have pointed out that the problem is with the rule are right on (Simple and USATF not so bad). It's well known that there will likely be scratches when the 5000 is so close to the end of the meet, so it makes sense to create a rule or policy to fill the field after athletes scratch. HOWEVER...

In the specific case of the men's 5000 at the USATF Championships, USATF did nothing wrong. The absence of the rule can and should be debated; the fact that USATF followed its own existing rules and guidelines is not cause to call it "corrupt" or what have you. If Stilin, Darling, et al. didn't understand the entry procedures, that's on them. Conjuring up a non-existent policy and then calling people/organizations names when they don't conform to your inaccurate perception of reality is the definition of childish.

If the whole point of this is to cast dispersion, find fault, or otherwise "blame" someone, why not look at the athletes who exploited the rule for their own advantage? Of the 18 athletes that declared, only nine ended up racing. Obviously, many were using the 5000 as a backup plan if they didn't make it in their primary events. But, many didn't even take advantage of this backup even when they could have. The runners that scratched were:

Chris Derrick (had already qualified in 10000)

Dathan Ritzenhein (had already qualified in 10000)

Evan Jager (had already qualified in 3000 SC)

Dan Huling (had already qualified in 3000 SC)

Will Leer (failed to qualify in 1500)

Bobby Curtis (failed to qualify in 10000)

Lopez Lomong (finished 3rd in 1500, still needs some help to make worlds)

Jeff See (failed to qualify in 1500)

George Alex (5000 was only event entered)

So, four of the nine scratches actually *needed* the backup plan and just chose to not use it. And there were several athletes (Rupp, True, Hill, G. Heath) in the 5000 that were doubling, so to say that conditions were too bad/strenuous to run two events is kind of BS. These athletes used the entry rules to their own advantage, and didn't even exploit that advantage.

The real problem besides that fact that NO PROCESS for declaring exists - is that coaches and athletes were told that if scratches occurred, those position WOULD be filled.

Yet, even after athletes and coaches of athletes who had the "A" and scratched and made these scratches publicly known - the USATF people kept insisting that there were NO SCRATCHES - that IS what makes this situation and the USATF organization look so bad!

Yes, it does. The deadline for declarations was Monday, June 17 at 11:59 PM ET. Additionally, athletes who missed the deadline could petition to declare until Tuesday at 2 PM ET.

The only evidence I've seen of this is that Mick Byrne "got the impression" that this would be the case (see around the 6:20 mark of this video:

). What really baffles me is that Byrne and the athletes keep insisting they had no idea whether they were in the meet or not, even though the declarations page (http://www.usatf.org/Events---Calendar/2013/USATFCS/Events/USA-Outdoor-Track---Field-Championships/Status-of-Entries.aspx) clearly lists them as "not accepted". This evidence, coupled with the absence of *any* official language about accepting athletes after the declaration deadline, has to be weighed against Byrne and Co.'s perceived injustices and wishful thinking.

Again, the problem is lack of transparency, and this absolutely needs to be addressed. This is how these interpretations of the rules get concocted. However, in this particular instance, it's a little ridiculous to have your entry flat out denied and still claim uncertainty. It's akin to a team in pro football losing their conference championship game, and then claiming for the next two weeks that they still weren't sure whether they were going to the Super Bowl.

You are as dumb as your namesake. Nike is the best thing to happen in our sport and the worst thing to happen to our sport. Nike controls USATF.

Barakus Obama wrote:

When did USATF and Nike become the same?

Simple wrote:

The real problem besides that fact that NO PROCESS for declaring exists - is that coaches and athletes were told that if scratches occurred, those position WOULD be filled.

Yet, even after athletes and coaches of athletes who had the "A" and scratched and made these scratches publicly known - the USATF people kept insisting that there were NO SCRATCHES - that IS what makes this situation and the USATF organization look so bad!

There technically is no on-site scratch process. That all occurs online earlier in the week.

Agree.

The athletes have no power, and if they don't ever risk speaking up...they never will.

They do need to speak up smartly though, sometimes Symmonds is a bit of a doosh. Not nearly at the level of Shorter and others that spoke up back in the day.

Hey, You entry was not accepted into the meet. End of thread dude.

The mighty 9 wrote:

Hey, You entry was not accepted into the meet. End of thread dude.

Nope. Beginning of thread idiot.

Only these prima donna D1 so-called distance powerhouse schools, their coaches, and their entitled athletes would waste the money to travel a kid to a meet that it says NOT ACCEPTED AND THEN WHINE THEY COULDNT HAVE ANOTHER CHANCE. GUESS WHAT? WASHINGTON INDOORS AND STANFORD OUTDOORS TIME TRIALS OF UNLIMTED CHANCES OVER YOUR FOUR YEAR CAREER TO RUN IN THE BEST RACES WITH BEST CONDITIONS AND RABBITS IS OVER; WELCOME TO REAL LIFE.

And Mick gets on there and "fights for his athlete"? More like coddles him one more time for the road so he can enter his post-college life feeling as though the man held him back.

Stilin went to Princeton, not exactly a "prima donna D1 distance powerhouse school," and had exactly one season at Texas. Furthermore, his presence at the trials had nothing to do with the Texas athletic department or his coach at Texas -- he paid his own way to the meet because he WAS qualified in the 1500. He had been hoping to get into the 5k, however, because that is the event he had been preparing for since the end of his indoor season.

And if you're going to bash the Wisco guys for being coddled, I hope you REALLY rip apart anyone who is associated with the Oregon Project.

I mean, these are AMATEURS for pete's sake. You've got it pretty backward if you think the ones paying their own way are coddled while the ones raking in sponsorships and bonuses are deserving of our unwavering adulation.

fun. wrote:

Joe Stilin > Letsrun Trolls

Joe Stilin's PBs after 2011 Season:

03:44 1500m

04:09 Mile

08:26 3000m

14:22 5000m

(2 years later)

Joe Stilin's PBs after 2013 Season:

03:39 1500m

03:58 Mile

07:53 3000m

13:33 5000m

This improvement doesn't meet the LRC Normal Improvement Standards. Stillin is clearly taking performance enhancing drugs.