Yes, this meet is also about developing athletes and promoting the sport.
You need to let as many as reasonable to compete here.
Yes, this meet is also about developing athletes and promoting the sport.
You need to let as many as reasonable to compete here.
Thank you, John Chaplin.
so.... wrote:
who cares... they aren't any good anyway.
rulez man wrote:
The USATF championships were this year to select the team to go to Moscow for the World Championships. Neither of those athletes would have made the team. USATF could have stuck 30 guys out on the track if they were concerned about participation. But that isn't the point. The point is to have the best fight it out to make the team.
Ryan Hill made it...and these guys are arguably on the same level of achievement as him. So that argument is totally invalid.
USATF needs to cut the games and go to an NCAA like system of if you enter in two events, you run both events. Its a "sportsmanship" rule I believe. For a national event to not have lists figured out a week in advance is simply awful. The sad thing is it will get even worse before it gets better.
Thomas Payne wrote:
Ryan Hill made it...and these guys are arguably on the same level of achievement as him. So that argument is totally invalid.
Andy Bayer would have had a definite shot in that race.
Good points.
Problem is there is not a responsible party , mens LDR are to busy hanging out in the hospitality area , Benita Mosley same thing. None of the staff has foresight or anticipation. They are not connected to the athletes or coaches.
What makes it worse is there is no way to check the accountability , no one to talk to , no one who will accept responsibility with a possible plan to remedy.
I couldn't watch more than 3 minutes of that because all i heard was
wahhhh
wahhhh
wahhhhh
Somebody get a waaaaambulance or some cheese to go with that whine.
Most people have a problem with only 9 people in the US champs 5k final. Honestly, it's a bit embarrassing. How can we raise some hype over track when we have 9 people in an event when 18 or so were scheduled to.
First things first though. Can you blame the athletes who scratched... I don't think so. As an athelete, you have to think about yourself first. Those guys who are trying (and arguably everyone is) to make the team are trying to find a way. And if they've qualified for the event they have the right to be there. The issueis that when these athletes KNOW that they won't be running it - I think that they have an obligation to the other guys on the list to make it known.
On the other end, who the hell do these tell that they're scratching?? So theres definitely a disconnect. Something NEEDS to change.
So since we have that out of the way that something should change - what's the solution? 24 hours before each event they have to "declare" again? Or if they're doubling, they have to say after their first event? I'd be interested to figure out a better solution to this frustrating problem. Lets figure out a solution to give to the heads of USATF to change it. Instead of just bitching lets figure out a better way to do it.
* wrote:
Yes, this meet is also about developing athletes and promoting the sport.
You need to let as many as reasonable to compete here.
The championships are not about developing athletes. They are about showing the culmination of that development. Very simple solution for those boys: RUN FASTER NEXT TIME.
A better question might have been for WEJO to ask was: Why didn't we have more A qualifiers? So this wouldn't have happened in the first place.
so you think it's perfectly fine to have a 13:30 guy sitting on the sidelines while NINE guys line up to run the 5000?
you CANNOT be that dumb...
I guess Billy Mills didn't belong in the 1960 Olympic 10000.... Oh, wait...
And I suppose Ryan Hill shouldn't have been in there either considering his season best wouldn't have given him a chance... Oh, wait...
The point is, FILL THE D@MN FIELD! Do you think they would only run 5 guys in the 100 if someone scratched? No, they bring up the guy who was 9th on time. The guy who, according to your logic, should have run faster. 9 guys in a 5000 final is ridiculous.
This whole thing feels like Nike (Salazar) dropped the hint that they wanted their boys (Rupp and Lagat) through as cleanly as possible.
Every time I get a reply from the USATF in regards to situations like this or things like reducing the Marathon standard the reply is along the lines of they want an elite meet and only the top 3 matter. That Tougher standards promote development. Then they go into how much stronger USA distance running is today than ever before. I'm sure they are happy with a field of 9.
Truth is 14:58 is not elite. And it does nothing to promote the sport and I wholeheartedly agree this can and needs to be better. Sad that HS meets are run better.
Whats funny is I sat down after my softball game on Sunday and put the DVR to work. "9 guys... Seriously?" I remember back in 08 how big of a deal it was that they put Adam Goucher in the 10,000 and it screwed over several College kids that were there ready to run with the B standard but Goucher didn't have any standard except "he is a former US champ"
That was one of the dumbest races I have ever seen. I was a 14:50 guy in college... I wasn't anything special... But I laughed and told my gf who knows nothing about running "if I were in that race and went out and ran my own race and they hadn't gone with me I could have won... that is pathetic"
Feel bad for these guys.. To have that talent and not be able to use it and put their name out there for sponsors to see so they can have a fighting chance to do this for a profession is crap. USATF is working against itself.
Why do you think a "B" standard exists?
rulez man wrote:
* wrote:Yes, this meet is also about developing athletes and promoting the sport.
You need to let as many as reasonable to compete here.
The championships are not about developing athletes. They are about showing the culmination of that development. Very simple solution for those boys: RUN FASTER NEXT TIME.
A better question might have been for WEJO to ask was: Why didn't we have more A qualifiers? So this wouldn't have happened in the first place.
"The championships are not about developing athletes. They are about showing the culmination of that development."
Hey dummy, don't you think that there are developmental needs to learn how to run in a championship race such as this? A time trial doesn't need much experience compared to the ebb and flow of championship racing and the tactics that go with it.
You must be a hobby jogger.
During the second lap of the 5000 meters it would have been wonderful to see a fat guy jump out of the stands and run in front of the competitors for a couple of laps.
In the men's 10000, fourteen guys had the "A" standard and ten the "B". Twenty-four ran in the race. So, since given your moniker you have a penchant for rules, what is the rule or principle that reconciles what USATF did as regards the 10 and 5?
rulez man wrote:
* wrote:Yes, this meet is also about developing athletes and promoting the sport.
You need to let as many as reasonable to compete here.
The championships are not about developing athletes. They are about showing the culmination of that development. Very simple solution for those boys: RUN FASTER NEXT TIME.
A better question might have been for WEJO to ask was: Why didn't we have more A qualifiers? So this wouldn't have happened in the first place.
If some B guys had been let in as they should have the pace would have been more legit and not the walk-a-thon we were served up.
There used to be a honest effort rule in the USATF Nationals. It needs to be brought back in some form.
The meet is one of few domestic meets and the entire problem within USATF starts with they see thier role as primarily to serve the elite tier one athletes only. They don't give a rats' a** about development and with 2 DL meets including more foreigners it has squeezed out most domestic runners. If some of our top athletes are not allowed to participate in the Nationals they are far more likely to quit the sport and not continue on with their careers where some have proven over he years they can develop and be elite. Ryan Wilson took 10 years to make a team. Morgan Uceny was not elite when she left college and without participation in this meet she could have easily decided to flick it in. How can you have 47 in the 1500 and just 9 in the 5000? The inequity is total BS and those in charge need to be tossed out but that would require everyone getting their votes together and actually attending the national convention and putting up a more athlete friendly aray of candidates that will make the right decisions. Instead we are left with old cronies like Chaplin who make up the rules as they go, hmmm, kind of like the dismissing of the Worlds bye rule of needing to actually participate to get the waiver.
JMartin wrote:
Seems like this happens every year. Nike and USATF.... Too much influence.
This is was my exact thought upon watching the interview and again when seeing this thread. I've been following the sport since the early 90's (over 20 years...wow) and it seems that every year we are discussing the incompetency of our governing body. But it's also fair to say that I'm not surprised anymore and that USATF has lost COMPLETE credibility.
* wrote:
In the Olympics if an athlete declares, he must show and give an honest effort.
We saw this with Makhloufi jogging the 800 prelims last year.
He was DQed from the 1500 for not trying.
He appealed and won the appeal, then won the 1500.
But at least they made him go through hoops.
You can't just disrespect the event you have been given a chance to compete in over others.
I don't blame the athletes for playing all angles within the rules, I blame the rules.
Great post. I mean in NCAAs.
The people who keep saying the guys who didn't get in wouldn't have made the team don't get it. By that standard, we should only have what 6-7 in every race but the 800.
The point is a lot of guys are making huge financial sacrifices becuase they love the sport and want to run at USAs. Imagine (and it's happening more and more in Europe), if only the people who showed up were the people who are going to win. You have a race with like 4 people.
They clearly aren't trying to make USAs some spectator friendly meet. It's a selection meet that should a) be moostly about selection and b) be mostly about the athletes.
uh_no wrote:
Montesquieu wrote:It was Gerry Lindgren who was responsible for a major sea change. What we need is someone like Salazar speaking up about the need to have uniform clear-cut standards for the distance runners and accountability among the officials. The story Mick Byrne tells about his treatment would be funny if it weren't abhorrent.
why would sal care one bit? his athletes get in....
Puskedra would've been the next guy to get in after Darling, and he wanted to run.