Gatlin 9.94 over Bolt in Rome

how many threads you got running concurrently on this race SG?

2 threads, the other one is a general thread on all the 100m competitors in Rome:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5217234&page=1

As much as I'm impressed by Vicaut's season opener and happy for Collins' performance, I am blown away by Bolt's first 3 or 4 steps.

James, man, that was absolutely unbelievable!

UNBELIEVABLE!

Think of who he was up against--Rodgers, Gatlin, Collins. All excellent starters.

That was SCARY-good-looking. Like others have already said, if he gets into his usual championship shape, and executes that start, it is another 9.6x-low, or, and I can't believe I'm saying this, WR-territory. Given Bolt's performance envelope, that was a 9.4x first 3 steps.

YOWZA!

At the same time, much props to Gatlin. He obviously works hard. Flying over there and actually beating Bolt is impressive, no matter what. I'm sure a fresh Gatlin would have gone 9.8x today under those conditions.

Bolt made 16, before taxes and only because it was an Olympic year.

He's probably making 5 before taxes this year, most of it Samsung and Puma. Puma's got him locked up for life alot like Jordan with Nike.

Charlie Chester Chaz McChesney wrote:

What an embarrassment that Gatlin is allowed to compete. I am no fan of Bolt's, and he may be a drug cheat as well, but this Gatlin stuff is a scar on the face of our sport.

Bolt is a much worse drug cheat than Gatlin.

9.58 while coasting through the finish line with arms out stretched = cool and awesome.

9.94 from a cheat = well that figures he'd beat Bolt, he's probably using again!

Everyone tossing accusations or recriminations about so-and-so being on dope should be required to state *their* rooting interest and that they *know* said interest to be entirely clean.

Or that they believe everyone is doped, that would work too.

Of course there might not be many threads or posts then...

Gatlin is no longer on the juice. I'll bet he is tested more than any other athlete and they are passporting the crap out of him.

He has always been a fantastic closer and he stays quite relaxed under pressure.

The real question is and will be what are the lasting effects of the dope? 9 years after Athens, no competition for 4 years and he is still one of the best.

About this "drug cheat Gatlin" stuff...

The thing about drug cheating is that it can come in many forms, one of which is intentional cheating.

That type of conduct is evidence of moral turpitude, but I wouldn't say that it rises to the level of malum in se...but nonetheless, it indicates a capacity of character.

For some things that really are malum in se, like child sexual assault or murder, for our continued safety and for the safety of others we "brand" people according to a demonstrated capacity to be immoral in the extreme.

Nobody here wants anyone convicted of criminal child sexual assault living next door to a home with kids in it.

Does Gatlin's offense rise to the level where it is socially useful to label him in this way, even though the basic offense was not sufficiently egregious to warrant criminal sanctions?

It might, IF the performance-enhancing effect of 'roids is shown to endure for a long time, OR IF it can be shown that convicted drug cheats exhibit a high rate of recidivism, and if there is some type of useful response to the situation, like increased vigilance, or selection of athletes in the event that there is a tie, or limited resources to go around.

I don't think it is socially useful here on letsrun to continually call Gatlin "drug cheat", ESPECIALLY when the guys he is beating are the likes of Rodgers and Bolt.

Instead of the headline "drug cheat Gatlin wins in Rome", you might as well write that "drug cheat Bolt loses in Rome", or "drug cheat Rodgers loses to drug cheats Bolt and Gatlin in Rome".

If you apply it to one, you should apply it equally to all. And don't give me any of the "he never tested positive" rhetoric about Bolt--there is plenty enough circumstantial evidence to prove to many, including myself, that he has used.

So it doesn't seem useful to me, as it doesn't meaningfully differentiate Gatlin from other athletes in the race.

Apart from that, it doesn't meaningfully help interpret his performance, either. This was a race that reflects cleanly-achievable times. Gatlin's time adjusts to 9.98, Bolt's to 9.99 UNLESS it is demonstrated that these 2 performance are attributable to drugs, Gatlin's in particular, then calling him a "drug cheat" doesn't provide any explanatory benefit in interpreting the performance.

Since use of the "drug cheat" moniker doesn't seem to me to have any functional utility WRT this race, the only justification seems to be the meting out of continuing punishment. And you know what? Even though it might not be savory or appealing, I think that's OK. Everybody is affected differently by these things.

Gatlin, Rodgers, and Bolt have all doped, so in my mind they are all "dopers". Whatever.

What I do believe, though, is that for me personally there is less pleasure taken from a race between athletes like these, than there is from one between, say, guys like Lemaitre, Collins, Vicaut, Thompson, etc.

With those other guys, I don't have to suspend disbelief.

In a race with times like these, it's not too hard for me to let bygones be bygones. For me, this is another example of a believable, reasonable race, and I hope that we see more of them.

It wasn't 9.58, it was a goofed, negative-leaned 9.69

His 9.58 was equally offensive. So was 12.80, that entire season, and 19.26

However, these 9.94's and 9.95's aren't in that league. They don't make a mockery of t&f, of the effort that everybody puts in.

I am STILL reeling from Bolt's start.

Maybe he was trying to get disqualified and accidentally hit it perfectly!

i'm glad Gatlin won only because the brojo's are such haters on everybody and glorify the obvious dopers like Bolt and Radcliffe.

Yes Gatlin ran a faster time in Eugene but with a +2.6 wind. That is not even worth 10.00, this was a superior race. Even with a great start from Bolt he couldn't keep up in the middle of the race and then didn't really close at the end, with only his lean getting him that close. Bolt has a lot of work to do before Moscow, I am sure they will get the chemistry right before then.

Sprintgeezer, you cannot just randomly go around claiming people are drug cheats because they run fast. We can only call someone a drug cheat if they get caught, or if you have some evidence that we don't know about.

the big reason we can call Gatlin a drug cheat is because he was caught.

Bolt has not been caught and there is some evidence to speculate that he has had a fairly normal progression through many years now.

I'd like to think Collins is clean, but at his age running the way he does... I think it's doubtful. Though perhaps he only doping enough to maintain his testosterone levels at those of a 20 something year old.

People moaning about dopers still competing is obnoxious. There's absolutely no telling who is or isn't doping especially at the top. What reason does any outside observer have to believe an athlete is doping or clean? If history tells us anything it's that people dope and succeed in avoiding detection - testing is ineffective.

We're all much better off accepting that doping is just part of the game and moving on with business.

So with said, it looked like there were a lot of good starts in the race. Bolt looked tight, horrible knee lift. Fun race to watch. And, sets up an interesting dynamic for later this season.

At the top of tmz.com at the moment:

Usain Bolt just got his Jamaican butt kicked in a 100m race in Rome ... but it's only because he probably wasn't trying.

Bolt was competing in something called the Rome Golden Gala Diamond League meet on Thursday ... and came in SECOND ... right behind Team USA superstar Justin Gatlin.

Read more:

http://www.tmz.com#ixzz2VUbvpahb

actually, Pre was windy this year. Overall, there are roughly 5 all time 100m times in Rome in the top 100 or so and about the same in Eugene (Mullings, Gatlin, and Crawford, all suspect or with positive tests own three of those). Eugene's track is not what I was referring to in any case. For sprinting, you'd want hotter weather.

I completely agree with you on this one...it has even been revealed that no human can continuously & physically run and compete for such a season at that intense level. If that was the case you'd see more sub 10's like nothing. At some extent all these men are on some form of PEDs whether people like it or not. And for an athlete to be running crazy fast like bolt for almost 6 years with no break down? With so much money at stake, sponsorship deals, shoe deals (& secret bets/gambling) I think some of these names are just too much to be caught. Marion Jones was caught because her and other athletes were involved in a larger than life scandal, but the likes of Greene?Johnson?Drummond?...the whole HSI team had doctors follow them to every meet. And can someone still explain to me why Tyson Gay's training mate Steve Mullings was caught doping and how Gay never knew?As mentioned a lot of these names will never go down, due to so much at stake. Heck! Bolt is a national treasure, as he is the only thing that represents such a small nation.

Needle Richard wrote:

All this hate for Gatlin from the people who adore Rupp, Farrah and Cain. Interesting...

Cain really? Come on now..

Charlie Chester Chaz McChesney wrote:

What an embarrassment that Gatlin is allowed to compete. I am no fan of Bolt's, and he may be a drug cheat as well, but this Gatlin stuff is a scar on the face of our sport.

Bolt is drugged to the gills and it a blight on our sport. The fact that he has not been caught says everything bad about testing. Gatlin getting caught means he's stupid, Bolt just has better people protecting his interests.