Mary Cain 2:01.68!!!

An arbitrary judgment. Cain's 2:01.68 is only .18 seconds off the B Standard. Cain's 4:10.77 is 1.77 seconds off the 1500 B standard.

Since there are no "standards" for the mile and 2 mile, why bring that up? In addition, Cain rarely runs the 8; she has run a ton of 1500/miles. Given her experience at these distances, Cain's performance today is at least comparable to what she has done at the 15 and beyond. The mile and 2 mile marks of Cain are at distances rarely run anymore at the high school level, so to break a mark held for more than 30 years means what? How would Mary Cain do in an 880 compared to the high school 880 mark on the books now? It is 2:07.7.

No the 4:10.77 was run in windy conditions, so bringing up the 4:28 is obviously relevant. It equates to a 4:07 high, which is under the B standard.

Those club teams are still High School level, they are just a compilation of a bunch of really good high school athletes, and they are still trained by the equivalent of a very good High School level coach. The Bronxville coach is a very good high school level coach. Alberto isn't what's making Mary good, it's her talent. Mary's improvement this year is pretty natural given her times from the previous two years. Alberto didn't do crap.

I think he's saying that Cain's 2:01.68 isn't unexpected. I agree, it's a great mark, but it's not as impressive as her 4:28 mile or 9:36 two mile.

Two years ago, Amy Weissenbach of Harvard-Westlake ran 2:02.05 completely on her own. Cain ran 2:01.68 against a field of pros.

Cain's performance was great obviously because it was a U.S. junior record, but Weissenbach's solo performance at the state meet in 2011 was better.

Don't forget that Cain did this in the 2nd race of her outdoor season and she may very well have taken some time off after winning the U.S. indoors, because that's Salazar's plan, 2 weeks off running, then easy running. If so, these two races are particularly impressive and suggest she'll break 2 and 4:06 this year. 2:01.68 may be fourth all time, but first is two flat, so she's very likely to get that. An incredible year for her already, better than any female American distance runner in high school ever, 9:38 HS record, 4:28 HS record, 2:01.68 4th all time, U.S. indoor championship at 1500m.

superiority complex wrote:

Sorry, 4:28 mile and 9:38 2-mile are both superior to a 2:01 800.

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An arbitrary judgment. Cain's 2:01.68 is only .18 seconds off the B Standard. Cain's 4:10.77 is 1.77 seconds off the 1500 B standard.

Since there are no "standards" for the mile and 2 mile, why bring that up? In addition, Cain rarely runs the 8; she has run a ton of 1500/miles. Given her experience at these distances, Cain's performance today is at least comparable to what she has done at the 15 and beyond. The mile and 2 mile marks of Cain are at distances rarely run anymore at the high school level, so to break a mark held for more than 30 years means what? How would Mary Cain do in an 880 compared to the high school 880 mark on the books now? It is 2:07.7.

Equivalency scale:

2:00 4:30 9:40

sayw wrote:

The Animal Within wrote:

Y'all know there was a 2:02 run in the California State High School meet a couple years ago right? That was the day after having a trials race and not having pros to chase.

Undeniably an amazing performance but not earth shattering like you all are making it out to be.

I think 2:00-2:05; 4:25-35; 9:40-10:00 should be the range of an elite HS female. Fact is they just all play soccer and quit from burnout from an opressive sports culture.

Ya'll know you're a moron. 2:02 is earth shattering. Then wake the hell up moron. She just went 2:01 early season (for her), and she's not an 800 runner moron. 2:01 this early for a 1500 runner who's a HS jr. Is earth shattering.

Lol.

AlSal coaches via Internet and phone. Hardly to credit here.

But come on... Earth Shattering? I'd put that 1:55-56 range.

800m race is fun wrote:

No the 4:10.77 was run in windy conditions, so bringing up the 4:28 is obviously relevant. It equates to a 4:07 high, which is under the B standard.

Her 800m today was roughly equivalent to the 4:10. The 4:28 is about a 4:09

fgjjjh wrote:What? Geb is clearly endurance based. Who knows about Lagat??? The only non-1500 thing I can recall him doing (in his prime) was NCAA cross country. That combined with his recent 5000m performances would make me guess that he has always been a 1500/5000 type.

may i correct you

around his 3'26 prime ( +/- 1y ) he ran a 7'30++ off it

he stated afterwards it was "hardest race of his life" & had no interest in over-distance again until his 1500 started to slow from '05

he was a 1500/800 guy at his 1500 peak, just that he never bothered running any elite field 800s - he wouda been expecting around 1'43-flat if he had ( same as likes of baala/asbel )

Oh, I see, not as impressed. I should be persuaded because this athlete chose not to be part of a high school drama, and oh yes, in suburban communities, there is lots of drama, including meddlesome parents who live vicariously through their kids. Yours is an acceptable view if you view high school sports as the be all and end all. I never adopted that view, despite running a 4:08 mile in high school and being on a state championship team. Running was still only a means to express myself, and my long term goals were centered around obtaining a world class education and personal development and maturation. This is an upper middle class kid with likely the same considerations. If you think high school sports, i.e. playing nice with teammates - whatever that means - is paramount to the kind of objectives I explicate, well, then, you may have a point. Color me skeptical.

Moreover, what silliness in your statement. Any high school athlete should be able to improve? Yes, we all should be able to improve. The list of young high school female phenoms who do not improve is long, and moreover, the list of those who absolutely fall from the heights is also considerably large (no need to name names, but any glance at Footlocker champions in the last 15 years will suffice). The fact is that she has improved, and moreover, actually races and is not just a time trialer. Impressive indeed.

This athlete is a genuine talent, and accordingly, it is not surprising that the typical cadre of Lets Run prevaricators, a generally insecure lot who also fail to put running and sports into perspective, are negative.

This is simply not true on several levels. Take swimming for a high school team as an example. It is a joke compared to club swimming. When was the last time a high school-- and only high school-- swimmer did anything worth a damn?

Also, the national-level swimming clubs have collegiate and post-collegiate athletes and practices. Michael Phelps still went to his club to train between Olympics.

If you go to the NY state results, there was one boy from Bronxville who broke 2:35 in the 1000m. Is she going to train with him? What's the point of that?

Sports teams at high schools-- although they are great for a lot of reasons-- do not produce world class swimmers, baseball players, soccer players, basketball players, etc. It is the clubs that do that.

So what? In case you haven't noticed, high school level running in the US sucks. Being a "very good high school level coach" generally mean that the kids actually go to practice 5 days a week and will occasionally do some speedwork and run on weekends.

The fact that the Bronxville coach can convince his kids to do that doesn't mean that he/she is qualified to train an international level athlete.

This is simply not true on several levels. Take swimming for a high school team as an example. It is a joke compared to club swimming. When was the last time a high school-- and only high school-- swimmer did anything worth a damn?

Also, the national-level swimming clubs have collegiate and post-collegiate athletes and practices. Michael Phelps still went to his club to train between Olympics.

If you go to the NY state results, there was one boy from Bronxville who broke 2:35 in the 1000m. Is she going to train with him? What's the point of that?

Sports teams at high schools-- although they are great for a lot of reasons-- do not produce world class swimmers, baseball players, soccer players, basketball players, etc. It is the clubs that do that.

So what? In case you haven't noticed, high school level running in the US sucks. Being a "very good high school level coach" generally mean that the kids actually go to practice 5 days a week and will occasionally do some speedwork and run on weekends.

The fact that the Bronxville coach can convince his kids to do that doesn't mean that he/she is qualified to train an international level athlete.

I know many people who compete in clubs for various sports. When they train they are with other high school aged athletes. Their coaches train primarily high school athletes, so they are basically very good high school coaches.

She didn't need Alberto Salazar to get better. In the year she's been with him her 1500 time has improved by a second (it'll be faster by the end of the year but I guarantee you she could have had the same improvement under a high school coach).

And are you really going to put her on the same level as Michael Phelps? She's not THAT good. She's a national class talent, not world class.

You need to look further into the Bronxville team. If she were to train with the boys as suggested by your reference to the guy who ran under 2:35 at states, she would've been absolutely fine. She ran 4:11 last year training with them. That guy who ran under 2:35 also ran 2:31 indoors and is now 4th in NY for the 800m. Not a bad training partner now is he? They also have ~3-4 more guys who run in the low 2:0x range and 1-2 more guys who run around her mile time.

Read the second paragraph on the first page. He really hasn't done much has he? Just being good enough to convince your kids to show up doesn't get you into a hall of fame.

Alberto's athletes aren't good because he's an incredible coach. Alberto just looks good because he gets the most talented runners, money from Nike, and he likes to diagnose his athletes with asthma and thyroid problems.

Why do you think Rupp stays with him? Why do you think Ritz and Farah came to him? Why do you think Moser came to him? Why do you think Cain wanted to train with him? It's not "because he gets the most talented runners," as if he's finding garbage in the street. But honestly, you can't be so stupid as to think he doesn't know what he's doing.

No-- she didn't need Alberto Salazar to merely improve. she needed Alberto Salazar to continue to progress in becoming a world class athlete.

1) Mr. Bolt is probably the only runner alive today who is as good-- relatively speaking-- as Michael Phelps.

2) She is a world-class talent. She can already go hang out in Europe on the professional circuit and get paid to run. That's world class.

The mere fact that he's been so successful for so long shows how pathetic high school running is in the US.

Look-- There are no genetic differences between the kids going to Bronxville and the kids going to the high school down the street. It is a public school, so there is no recruiting. The kids eat the same diet, play the same video games, etc.

All the excuses that people use to explain the success of the Kenyans simply do not apply.

And yet: "Mitchell transformed the girls track and field program to a factory of middle-distance runners,

with 38 athletes over the years receiving a total of 110 All–American titles. His teams have also

achieved 68 Section titles and approximately 88 League titles, six cross country State titles, three National

Champion Relays and he has developed more Division I athletes than anyone can remember."

If the other high schools had even half-way decent coaching, that simply would not be possible.

High school dynasties are successful because they get kids to actually practice-- not because the coaches have any insight into what is necessary for the long term development of a world class athlete.

uphill run wrote:

Gotta love the AlSal boost in performance. Who loves the juice?!?

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No juice yet. She's good enough to win without it but too young to be trying to produce outrageous resutlts.....Lydiard would say wati till you are 22 or so....

And without being able to race the 8. If she could put together a good race for all of two laps, she would drop a second off her 2:01.68 this year. Cain does not seem to understand that in the 8, you must control the race and not let the race control you. Moser can help her with this more than Salazar can.