Testosterone and long distance running

OlegX wrote:

Cheez! 400 mg

Cheez? What is cheez?

cheez

a drug that you snort made out of herion and tylenol pm

Xfitguy_the_real_one_1 wrote:

Not AlSal wrote:

Why did testosterone use actually cause negative results with my distance running?

Because distance running is for girls.

___________________________

Grrrr, do push ups, but not the proper type, then push over a tire while someone yells at you to keep going, and then lift a weaky weight over your head and run outside for 1/2 mile "jog". Wow

FYI, at 50 years old, I was encouraged to try xfit. I walked everyone there in push ups (because I actually did them, not the quick half ones you losers do), and then moved along because I'm fit aerobically compared to the tatt'd ego's, and then outside for the 1/2 mile sprint for me, and death march for you xfit losers. I was getting my bag and towel to leave when the xfit stars came staggering in. What a joke.

I realize this is an old post, but I'm also 44 and a competitive distance runner and felt like my T levels were low and started experimenting. Initially seemed like the pills I (I'm scared of needles!) helped especially with recovery, but I did notice a slight weight gain. The last couple races I took pills and gel before the race and my legs got super heavy on a half marathon, and then on a Marathon I had to actually walk at mile 17 after feeling great and maintaining a comfortable 6:40 pace. My legs just cramped! :-(

So I'm wondering how your overall experience worked out?

Masters Runner wrote:

I realize this is an old post, but I'm also 44 and a competitive distance runner and felt like my T levels were low and started experimenting. Initially seemed like the pills I (I'm scared of needles!) helped especially with recovery, but I did notice a slight weight gain. The last couple races I took pills and gel before the race and my legs got super heavy on a half marathon, and then on a Marathon I had to actually walk at mile 17 after feeling great and maintaining a comfortable 6:40 pace. My legs just cramped! :-(

So I'm wondering how your overall experience worked out?

Really interesting...sounds like it's great for sprinters, not great for distance runners. Health is the only reason anyone should be taking it anyway, but it begs the question: if taking exogenous T hurts your running, is it worth it for health reasons? Think of all you'd lose from losing speed, both physically and even psychologically. I know getting faster is something that keeps me excited 24/7.

If you have low testosterone in your early 40's, odds are you either have freakishly unlucky genetics, or something is seriously wrong with your lifestyle or diet. Or you're married with kids, which is estrogenic.

If OP had simply started lifting weights and eating more he'd have had the same results without medication. When you need hormones, you'll synthesize them. When you don't, you won't. Do things that require power and aggression.

Eat enough fat.

Masters Runner wrote:

I realize this is an old post, but I'm also 44 and a competitive distance runner and felt like my T levels were low and started experimenting. Initially seemed like the pills I (I'm scared of needles!) helped especially with recovery, but I did notice a slight weight gain. The last couple races I took pills and gel before the race and my legs got super heavy on a half marathon, and then on a Marathon I had to actually walk at mile 17 after feeling great and maintaining a comfortable 6:40 pace. My legs just cramped! :-(

So I'm wondering how your overall experience worked out?

It's a recovery drug. Use it for recovery. That's all.

The beauty of the WADA threshold being 4:1 T/E ratio as positive means you can do quite a bit of Test and never test positive.

Get that blood tested though! You don't want to fail the idiocy test.

while in college I did dabble with some prohormones. One of the supplements I used was M-Drol, which is a prohormone and not testosterone. While using that for a month, I gained probable 13 or so pounds, and lot of strength. I my usual weight is 140, and at the end of that cycle I was 154. My strength skyrocketed though. I went from benching around 135 to 190. I lifted a lot during that month on top of my colleges two-a-day practices. I ran about 60mpw at that time. My mile and 800m time got better but my 5k time improved a little. I noticed my muscles, shoulders especially tightened up really bad in long races. My mile and 800 were strong though. I was really able to get out aggressive. As a distance runner, I would take test and focus on interval training and overall mileage. The weight gain will impact you, but if you choose shorter races, like 5k and below, you will be okay. It takes time too get used too though. You should give it more time than just 10 weeks. Im a 4;26 miler and 15:22 5k guy, so naturally I am more of the distance build than strength. Keep up the training and consistency and it will all improve. 44 and running low 17's is solid.

There are two schools of thought when it comes to low-T in aging dudes. Most fall into the first camp, that the drop off of testosterone as males age is "unnatural." The second camp, believes that testosterone dropping off as you age is normal.. since it pretty much happens to everyone. It's like getting gray hair.

So under the second school of thought, raising your T to levels you would have in year early 20's is pushing you to a level higher than your natural state. In short, you don't necessarily have low T. Your naturally declining, low T is considered by your doctor to be a "problem."

Your nickname is hilarious.

you probably didnt need testosterone in the first place

and when you took it, it was substantially overdosed.

adding muscle mass does not ensure added enzymes or mitochondrial content for energy production and fatigue resistance.

testosterone is a performance enhancer but individual variation is still a key principle.

You guys need to read up on test. if you start just injecting here or there and you don't need it, it can turn in estrogen, so while you THINK you're being sneaky and cheating, in reality you are being sneaky and hurting yourself.

pop_pop! wrote:

It's a recovery drug. Use it for recovery. That's all.

The beauty of the WADA threshold being 4:1 T/E ratio as positive means you can do quite a bit of Test and never test positive.

Get that blood tested though! You don't want to fail the idiocy test.

That's my question: Is testosterone and androgens primarily used by some elite distance runners for recovery? There was an interesting ongoing debate on this subject on the "Now it gets interesting, Zane Robertson's ex-girlfriend Betty Desalegn (Jama Aden athlete) is busted for Biological Passport" thread before many of the posts were deleted and a stern warning was given by the mods to stay on topic.

The basic argument from each side is summarized with the following:

> Androgens are completely "ineffective" for male distance runners:

1) 1980s RCT with non-elite trained runners who took a low-dose steroid over 6 weeks showed no improvement in key endurance markers (e.g., VO2max, LT, etc.). 2) If a distance runner experiences suppressed T levels caused by high volume training demands, the levels can be brought up completely by natural means. 3) Any androgen use by the high number of positive tests over the decades would be completely a "placebo" effect.

> Androgens are "effective" for male distance runners:

1) Scientific studies showing prolonged endurance exercise suppresses testosterone levels and other endocrine markers, and therefore some athletes would use androgens to restore suppressed levels due high-volume training demands encompassed with many elites. 2) Some studies show androgens can mildly raise hematological markers (i.e., Hct/Hgb, retics, etc), which could improve endurance with distance running. 3) Anecdotal evidence of the numerous distance runners, including some very big names, who have tested positive for androgens over the last 3 decades.

I see good points on both sides of the argument.

Any thoughts on this issue?

Anyone with any expertise in this area to offer an opinion?

When I read this post, I had to double check it to see if it was me who wrote it. Same age, same 5k times, same exact experience (running got worse, out of breath at weird times (like when trying to fall asleep, for me), same deal with saving up my scripts to be able to try a much larger amount than what is used for low-t, but not near the amount bodybuilders use.

Exact same experience. Testosterone therapy doesn't help distance running. It makes it worse. I initially thought it might help due to increased ability to recover from workouts, maybe. Or something like that. But no. The whole experience sucked.

Sounds like a terrible experience....

I am on Testosterone cypionate and it has destroyed my endurance completely. Went from running 50+ a week to barely being able to do 30, all my times dropped by a minute per mile and I have problems breathing. I regret ever taking testosterone as the side effects aren't worth what little peace of mind and libido it gave me.

A few observations on reading this thread.

OP was on 400mg a week which is a crazy high amount. It's massively likely that a lot of this testosterone was synthesized into estrogen. Thus the water weight gained, breathlessness and other likely symptoms such as being over emotional (I kid you not), joint and muscle aches and pains.

If someone is dosing 400 a month it needs to be done alongside an AI (aromatase inhibitor) which halts the conversation from testosterone to estrogen. A better approach is to take a much smaller dose while having a close eye on blood work to monitor estrogen levels / testosterone levels.

In effect OP just experienced the existence of an over hormonal female.

I am currently on 60mg a week split into 3 doses of 20mg. I can run again, my weight is down but I still don't feel as I did before I started TRT. Unfortunately, if I want to quit all my production is shut down and I don't have the funds to restart my system properly and get off the testosterone.

Not A Duck wrote:

You're 5'10 and 135 pounds as a 44yo? Dude, obsess much? That is NOT normal.

I'm 5'10" 160 lbs. that's normal. A little heavy for distance running, but normal overall

The testosterone didn't help because it doesn't help by increasing the training benefit of weekly mileage.

You 1. may be less likely to get injured due to quicker muscle recover and may be able to run more mileage

2. get an enhanced effect from weight training

So you should have been at the gym doing high reps of weight machines like chest press, rows, lat pulldowns etc, and also deadlift, squat, bench for low reps (5 3 1). working at the extreme end of either max strength or endurance (50 reps) will not target hypertrophy but rather fat loss, and so will running long distances.

As for injecting testosterone raising your heart rate, this is of course detrimental to running well. You'd adapt, if you maintained a steady weight and mileage but, having low T in the first place suggests a problem with circulation. Try hiking instead of running for some days, this is what I was going to say here. Testosterone was seen to increase in some studies of hikers, probably the leg activation combined with sunlight and lower intensity cardio being more relaxing. Of course this means a fit runner could probably see an increase in testosterone by doing an easy run on hills or dirt in the sunlight.

you could schedule 5 days a week running, hiking weekends or 4 days on 3 days hiking, alternating days hiking and running.