Wall St Journal looks at Houston Doc who treats Rupp, other thyroid users

WORTH BOLD TYPE wrote:

Pittance wrote:

Yep, Rupp is so transparent that he declined to comment for the WSJ article.

Again, idiot, he's already on record, half a decade ago. The writers did not do their homework.

"Why does a Seattle Seahawk see an expert in Florida?"

Perhaps to see the clinic that gave Arod his drugs...

Seriously, you use "the NFL guys do it" as a way to argue that it's not at all suspicious??? Wow.

Missing the point wrote:

How are they using the drug?

In other words, people with real thyroid conditions take Synthroid every day at the same time. That's how it's prescribed and that's what the research shows is most effective at keeping consistent TSH levels.

So to me the real proof is in how they take the drug. Is Rupp taking Synthroid every single day for the rest of his life? Or is he taking it during certain phases of his training?

So Mr Duck, you're the man with the inside information who likes to name drop, what's the answer for Rupp and the other NOP thyroid users?

The elephant in the living room is "why does someone who lives on Portland Oregon seeing a doctor in Houston?" Are there no endocrinologists in Portland? Is there not a fine teaching hospital in Portland? Why do athltes in Oregon need to shop for doctors in Texas?

I will just write this: if Salazar is involved, then there is no doubt that Rupp is cheating. Salazar is probably the most dishonest and bitter person that I ever met. I hope that this leads to permanent damage for everyone who is cheating this way.

1. Numerous thyroid disease suffers have posted on your threads telling the dangers.

2. Do you know how actual journalism works? Sometimes writers trim things from articles. Research: "Inverse Pyramid." They also slant articles to make things seem more controversial and exciting. And in this case stupidly left out the dangers.

3. I laugh every time you cite Jos Hermans quote as meaning anything --. You state no evidence that Farah is on thyroid. You NEVER (until today) emphasis that Herman's might have a real MONEY and JEALOUSY and ANGER agenda because Salazar declined to Coach The Bekeles. You leave out that SOUR GRAPES angle.

And what a well stated non-sense of a quote this is:

"Jos Hermens said, “Science has triumphed over nature. Formally Farah and Rupp are doing nothing illegal. I rather just questioning if Farah during a doping control hands a laundry list of products specified, for which he apparently has a certificate. Within the environment knows almost everyone that it is used. Thyroid hormone affects all. I do not understand why it is not on the banned list.”

Absolutely horsesht of a statment, it might as well have read:

"Science has triumphed over nature, because my guy didn't win. Formally Farah and Rupp are doing nothing illegal, in fact I don't know what they are doing at all, except Rupp was diagnosed with a thyroid problem 6 years ago. I am totally paranoid and grossly speculating that I wonder if Farah has a long list of TUE's, if course I have no evidence, but I am pissed that my guy just lost. Within the environment nobody knows what is used because my sentence makes no sense. Thyroid hormone affects us all cos we all have one. Rupp is on thyroid, I am mad my guy lost, I don't know what the f I am talking about medically or scientifically, or factually. I do not understand why it is not on the banned list because I am going off half cocked because I am mad that my guy lost."

It is an idiot quote. Blame it on the translation, whatever.

Jos Herman's is a spoiled idiot who didn't have the class to just congratulate the athletes and then go do his homework.

If Salazar and Rupp weren't transparent about Rupp's thyroid health 6-7 years ago, Hermans would have had to find another excuse.

Enduring Endurance wrote:

How about that botched test? Happens all the time with lab work. That is why you always rerun your tests in a lab when you get a result you need to confirm.

You claim that LA was doping at "UBER" levels. Prove it.

He was doping, yes. Uber-doping, no.

P.S. You are still posting from your mom's basement. Has nothing to do with your parents at all. It has to do with you.

Please find the post where I say anything about Armstrong "UBER" doping. Although I do think he was taking a lot of drugs, you're simply misquoting me. However, you explicitly made the claim that he was doping at low levels. "Prove it," as you say.

Regarding your basement comments, this isn't 3rd grade. Call me a troll if that's all you've got, but all I did was respond to your ridiculous comment that Armstrong was doping at low levels. I think that has been sufficiently debunked. Anyone still defending Lance's doping is a fanboy.

You can't be just a little bit pregnant. Rupp is octomom.

yuiop wrote: However, you explicitly made the claim that he was doping at low levels. "Prove it," as you say.

No failed tests during competition. Bogus test doesn't count, try as you might. Drug levels below the detection limit based on the USADA claims that he was banned substances at the time. Armstrong should have had numerous failed tests. Not the case.

There for he was using at a level the testing could not see, at least not until newer tests were invent.

Your turn. Poor mass use of PEDs. Mass use (Uber) means easily detectable by existing test equipment duringthe years of competition.

Interesting Implications wrote:

With regard to Tylenol, ibuprofen, etc. there's no question that they can't be obtained by "natural means." If pain relievers are the only thing that let you train through PF or maintain high mileage, how is that different from synthetic thyroid?

How is it different? Well a barefoot farmer in Africa can walk into a store and get ibuprofen or aspirin for a few pennies. It's a universal drug. Good luck getting diagnosed and treated for hyperthyroidism.

Your argument is like the saying everyone who works for a living is the same - whether it's $1 million a year or $10,000.

[quote]rekrunner wrote:

For being an "informed discussion" on an important topic, it seems to me, that a lot of prerequisite information is missing.

After reading the whole thread, a few basic questions are not yet answered:

- Is thyroid medication performance enhancing? Why is anyone calling it a PED if the PE part hasn't really been established?

- If the medication is not banned, and doesn't require a TUE, why is anyone talking about abusing TUE's?

- Curiously, it is not a secret. The IAAF and WADA have both looked at the question of thyroid medication, and declined to ban it. Why? Is it a conspiracy, or can it be that it really is a non-issue?

- It's also interesting to see Belgian/Dutch quotes, especially coming from Jos Hermans. Does he know more than he is telling, or is this just more conspiracy theory?

There are some leads, which need to be followed up (this is the IAAF's, WADA's, USATF's, USADA's, etc. job), but before we can talk about cheating, someone has to make a case that cheating is happening.

[quote]teamdoc wrote:

...

This is a reasoned and responsible post.

You make excellent points.

Jos Hermans, conspiracy theory for sure. Read the inanity of that quote.

How'd you like to have that guy testifying against you in court? WOW.

My take on Jos Hermans from day one on these quotes is he was just popping off and jealous because he was used to his guy being the PERENNIAL TOP DOG for SO LONG, and the fact that Salazar declined to coach his guys. What better way to share your Sour Grapes than to smear the competition.

And think about it, Athletics means a lot more Holland than here, and what better way to deflect the failure of your athletes, Jos Hermans, than to smear the victor, Mo Farah.

I'd love to hear Mo Farah's response to Jos Hermans.

Moneyrun wrote:

I am sick to death of this cheating. Rupp and Radcliffe and Salazar make me want to puke. They know, and anybody who is not delusional knows, that what they are doing is cheating.

Radcliffe? I have a bad memory but has there ever been a rumor of her being on anything? Everyone knows about the asthma and thyroid stuff of Rupp as Salazar hasn't hid that, but I've never heard anything about Radcliffe other than "She ran so much faster than everyone else."

Please explain what you are talking about.

Rupp and Radcliffe have totally different career paths in my mind. Radcliffe was always a huge prodigy - a world junior champion. She won two world half titles and a world xc title before her marathon debut. She was a 30:01 performer before moving to the marathon.

Salazar's health was never fully regained.

The Prozac helped for a limited period of time.

He was forced to retire from athletics for good.

Subclinical hypothyroidism: Elevated TSH without decreased T4.

Hypothyroidism: elevated TSH with decreased T4.

The latter makes people feel like Sh*t, bradycardia, they walk slow, they talk slow, they don't poop, they don't think straight, they are always cold.

Euthyroid: 96% if the population give or take.

Hyperthyroidism: suppressed TSH, elevated T4

tachycardia, palpitations, tremor, heat intolerance, dyspnea, diarrhea, weight loss.

If in fact athletes are inducing hyperthyroidism in themselves they are at increased risk of A. fib with RVR and other tachycardias, they probably aren't sleeping as well, and there is a hypothesized (test tube) response of increased erythropoietin, which could increase hemoglobin.

I see it as a double edged sword, take at your own risk.

also, synthroid half life is like a week so the macrodosing does not really make sense.

Cytomel which has a short half life aka t3 could be used as a stimulant with grave potential harm to your health including a-fib with RVR resulting in potential V-tach. I have never met an endocrinolgist who is comfortable prescribing cytomel unless it was short term to bridge to T4 after thyroidectomy or thyroid ablation.

yuiop wrote:

grunewald wrote:

This is a good old fashioned witch hunt.

Sounds familiar... ah yes, the Lance followers used this defense until the bitter end.

I hope there isn't anything to this, but comparing medication to compression socks, really?

You didn't even read the whole guys post, did you?

Waster of time wrote:

Recent research shows beet juice has no effect on elite athletes.

Beet juice is the same as Lasse Viren's reindeer meat or Paula Radcliffe's ostrich steak.

So Rupp and Farah take thyroid meds that don't help them and also pregame for the Olympics with beet juice that doesn't help them. So why is Salazar coaching gold medalists because his ideas are truly flawed based on letsrun knowledge.

The above link points out a few studies showing results vs no results. I have researched it into some of the studies and the time it is ingested before the event is important. The two negative studies were 2.5 hours before and an hour. I have seen athletes use beet juice and it was within 15 min of the race.

My point is Salazar has spent decades figuring this stuff out. We are seeing one thing but missing the whole story. Farah would not be drinking beer juice if there was no benefit and Rupp wouldn't be taking thyroid meds if there wasn't a benefit.

rojo wrote:

Interesting Implications wrote:

With regard to Tylenol, ibuprofen, etc. there's no question that they can't be obtained by "natural means." If pain relievers are the only thing that let you train through PF or maintain high mileage, how is that different from synthetic thyroid?

How is it different? Well a barefoot farmer in Africa can walk into a store and get ibuprofen or aspirin for a few pennies. It's a universal drug. Good luck getting diagnosed and treated for hyperthyroidism.

Your argument is like the saying everyone who works for a living is the same - whether it's $1 million a year or $10,000.

Rojo, come on man you are better than this. First of all most prescription drugs are over the counter in Africa, second do you think they have access to most the things we do here? Come on!

A Duck wrote:

yuiop wrote:

Sounds familiar... ah yes, the Lance followers used this defense until the bitter end.

I hope there isn't anything to this, but comparing medication to compression socks, really?

You didn't even read the whole guys post, did you?

Actually, I did, but you lose credibility when you compare taking prescription medication with compression socks or living at altitude or "eating in general." As I said before, I hope thyroid meds (or any drug combo that include thyroid meds) aren't performance enhancing, but with the prevalence of PEDs, it's certainly worthy of scrutiny and discussion.

Enduring Endurance wrote:

A troll brought up the issue. It's about what is obvious, and what is not obvious.

Like anything, TUEs can be abused even if legitimate.

I was quite surprised that Oscar Pistorius evidently had steroids at his home when he shot his GF. He was actively competing, yet possibly taking something illegal and not caught at it. Maybe he knew how to time his use, if that's possible.

"Evidently."

No he didn't. He had a legal, non steroid, male sex enhancement herbal supplement.

This is why boards like this are so irresponsible.