Wall St Journal looks at Houston Doc who treats Rupp, other thyroid users

Hypothyroidism is a side effect of HGH use. I don't think I want to imply anything about Bob Kennedy, but it seems that we have a epidemic of hypothyroidism among professional distance runners and only professional distance runners. You don't hear much about sprinters who also push themselves very hard, and you don't hear about an epidemic of hypothyroidism in the NCAA (one of the above excepted).

Now if you think this is on the level, I'd like to sell you some property in Manhattan that I don't own.

Looks like professional triathalon athletes too...

http://triathlon.competitor.com/2013/04/news/matt-chrabot-heads-to-auckland-with-new-confidence_73210

Very sketchy.

Oh man, is it really possible Ryan Hall is a doper? He was the one guy I thought for sure was clean.

From the triathlete article:

After the battery of tests, his doctor figured out Chrabot had some thyroid issues that were affecting his testosterone level. Chrabot’s body was not producing enough of it, which explained why he kept bonking.

He was prescribed medication and was told to take it easy for a while. In six to nine months, his doctors told him, the issue should be cleared up.

Innnnteresting!

If they ban bronchodilators for those without a proper asthma diagnosis, how can they allow this to continue? It is absurd-- and suspicious-- to call someone with a TSH of 2.0 hypo. There is some personal variation, but 2.0, or even 4.0, is absolutely fine. It's when you're 10.0 and above that you have a real problem. I had a level of 15.9 (hereditary) and was treated down to 2.5, at which I felt great. Hell, I even felt pretty good, and ran comparatively well, at 9.0 while on the way down to 2.5. Until we know the pre-treatment TSH levels of these athletes (and why doesn't Dr. Thyroxin provide these numbers? He doesn't have to name names) we'll never know if hard training actually causes true hypothyroidism. If it turns out that all of them had TSHs over 10.0, or even 5.0, he might be onto something. I doubt it will, however. I have excessively tired athletes routinely tested for TSH (along with iron and the other basic markers) and none has ever come back higher than 2.5. And all eventually worked through their fatigue without supplementation.

Smyth retired? What is he, like 25?

"Rupp declined to comment, but said publicly in 2006 that Brown diagnosed him as hypothyroid. Hall and Lewis didn't respond to requests for comment. Begley said she remains a patient of Brown's because "he's the most thorough endocrinologist I've ever seen." Kennedy, now retired, said he never received performance benefits from hypothyroid medication."

Wow.

Research shows that 95% of the population has a TSH between .5 and 2.5.

The American Association of Endocrinologist range for normal is .5 to 3.0 and recommend investigation for treatment outside of that number.

spade detector wrote:

Smyth retired? What is he, like 25?

Retiring simply means that he isn't competing anymore. It happens ALL THE TIME in sports. The average NFL player is in the league for three years, meaning many NFL players retire by the time they are 24-25. It's really no different in our sport. How many guys/gals give it a go right out of college, only to realize that they lack the structure and support to make it as a professional?

The biggest news thus far is that Patrick Smyth has retired.

coach d I gain more respect for you everyday.

Endurance training produces differences in thyroid levels which can look like hypothyroid. If you are an endurance athlete who trains hard enough and looks hard enough you'll find a doc who will call it hypothyroid. Bottom line is normal values /ranges dont apply to endurance athletes. Body adapts to protect itself from overuse and to maintain weight.

Though it may be these athletes are encouraged to use thyroid med for it's effect on EPO and as such, a PED, I doubt this was Hall's intent as he was overtrained for some time.

dsrunner wrote:

Endurance training produces differences in thyroid levels which can look like hypothyroid. If you are an endurance athlete who trains hard enough and looks hard enough you'll find a doc who will call it hypothyroid. Bottom line is normal values /ranges dont apply to endurance athletes. Body adapts to protect itself from overuse and to maintain weight.

Though it may be these athletes are encouraged to use thyroid med for it's effect on EPO and as such, a PED, I doubt this was Hall's intent as he was overtrained for some time.

That is 100% false. This was posted on the Fam thread, but I'll post it now:

"Is it really that simple? Get "overtrained" and then your TSH will go up so you can magically get on thyroid to correct overtraining?

If this was true, then we'd need to see a huge spike of your TSH when you are overtrained.

The issue with that is it just doesn't happen.

If you go run a really hard workout, your TSH will be elevated by .2-.4 or around that IMMEDIATELY after.

Well most people can't go from track to doctor immediately, and it's debatable if a .3 increase would even get you out of the normal zone.

What about overtraining, like Fam claims?

Let's go to the research:

In this fancy little study, they took middle distance runners and either overtrained them via volume or intensity.

The volume group increased from 85 kilometers to 176km in 4 weeks...

The intensity group went from 9km of speed work per week to 22km. With interval training 3 days a week of:

Mondays-6-10x400 in 70sec

Wednesdays- six to 10x 1000.d.)

Fridays- 8000-10000-m speed endurance run

Results:

TSH-

Volume group-

baseline avg- .97

end of study- .87

Intensity group-

baseline avg- .74

end of study- .80

What does that mean?

The normal range for TSH is .5 to 3.0 with some ambiguity at the top end because the Endocrine society recommends 2.5 and considers .5 to 2.0 "normal". If your TSH is above these numbers or near them, a doctor orders follow up tests to confirm. For hashimoto's it is a Thyroid antibodies test to see if your thyroid is essentially attacking itself.

So, if you over-train yourself like crazy for a month, your TSH doesn't change...

Let's acknowledge that some people use thyroid inappropriately, but lets also realize that doing a hard workout won't make your TSH look hypothyroid.

Its incredible the number of private interest groups we have perusing the boards...

I'm not sure how you determined that they were overtraining in that study, because it looks like some decent running to me. That "speed work" schedule is hardly something I'd expect to cause overtraining.

Make them do BOTH volume and speed, and have them do it for a full cycle (not 4 weeks) and we can see what overtraining actually does.

So increasing your volume from 50 miles to 110 is normal in 4 weeks?

Same with going from 5miles worth of intervals a week to 14miles of intervals?

Yes, 110mpw might not be a lot, but it is for someone who is used to doing 45-50!! It's like taking your typical HS freshman-sophomore XC kid and saying in 3 weeks we're going to run 110miles.

That is crash training if I've ever seen it.

You would at least hope to see some change in TSH if just doing hard workouts can cause it to change so much.

Maybe years of hard training alters the TSH, who knows. But I think it's pretty clear that you can't just overtrain for a bit or do a really hard workout, then go get TSH levels checked and fool some doctor.

Maybe hypothyroidism at high level of endurance training is the normal course of nature. If you train that much, you will get super tired. Those that can fix that equation with a pill no doubt has an advantage. They can train much harder than the athletics who don't. I think there is definitely some abuse going on here.

I hope that ruppie, sal, paula and the rest of the NOPers spend a lot of time in jail. Then get cancer. Then rot in hell !