Official 2013 World XC Live Race Day Thread

Great job guys, Congrat's!!!!

Well done entire team, Women in 4th is something to be proud of also.!!!

Quite talking about the what if's, We had a group of guys and ladies who wanted to be there and run well. Its the best team we had. Desire and drive always out runs talent in a hard course like this. So, I don't think we could have put together a better team with who wasn't there.

Again Congrats, True, Derrick, Vail, Mack, Strang and Heath!!!!!

Was the course short? How did the junior men run an 8k that fast (21min) on these "extreme" conditions? Either it was short or the course was easy... Which is it?

trollism wrote:

They could be protected when the vast majority of the people following the sport thought they were all smiley, happy, innocent Africans who weren't genetically able to cheat.

Now we've had the German documentary, the failed tests, the admission by Kiptanui that Kenya had a massive filthy doping problem, the public perception is changing.

Off course, you've still got the silly fanboys like yourself and Douglas that are Lance-fan like in your defense of these cheaters, but the IAAF realise that now is the time to crack down. If not in a massive public way, but we're going to see it in the results.

This has all the hallmarks of a self-reinforcing delusion. Let me review:

You say that when the IAAF instituted their anti-doping efforts, East Africans were exempted because the public had lost faith in American and European athletes and any doping offense from a high profile East African would shatter what little faith remained in the public mind for the sport of track and field. Despite this, John Ngugi was sanctioned for refusing a test at his home in Kenya in 1993.

During this time, you claim that East Africans went mad on EPO (and supposedly other PEDs) resulting in totally rewritten record books (but, curiously, the Europeans and Americans didn't seem to have access to the same stuff, with national records set in the 1980s either untouched until after the introduction of EPO testing, or remaining intact through the present day) and that the IAAF had opened up Pandora's Box, and had to continue their insulation of East Africans from anti-doping measures because they couldn't afford to stop them, even though East African dominance in middle and long distance running was becoming so all-encompassing that interest in the sport was declining (how many bids were there for today's cross country championships).

Every time an East African ran particularly fast or won a medal, it was because they were allowed to dope, while their competitors had to stay honest (strange way to get money into the sport, don't you think?). But then, in contrast to that, you say that the competitive results from the Americans and British squads was due to the IAAF cracking down on the East Africans with their biological passports.

So the IAAF couldn't afford the public losing faith in East African distance running (even though when major stars like Ngugi have been sanctioned, there was hardly a ripple in the pond), but now they can? Will you state that certain people will be subject to penalties (the athletes you see that don't run well) while others will continue to enjoy protection (the ones that do run well)?

You have created this world in which you have a conclusion and you will shape the facts to fit that conclusion: that it's impossible for handful for a few Kenyan and Ethiopian tribes, that have had every geographical advantage in developing distance runners for 50,000 years, to be better than nearly everyone else in the world at distance running, and that it's impossible for an aided man to approach the men's world records in middle and long distance records.

You can take some time off because this is what you'll do: when some Kenyan marathon runners run afoul of the IAAF doping controls (more will come) and western runners have a few more good placings in competitions like today, you'll say that the new measures are proving that East African dominance has been built on chemical enhancement. But then short while later, when more young East Africans coming out of nowhere to run incredibly fast times, you'll say that there back at it with some new, undetectable substance or that the IAAF is back to its old tricks.

No matter the results, your conclusions will always be the same. Complete close mindedness.

Jeff Wigand wrote:

[quote]trollism wrote:

They could be protected when the vast majority of the people following the sport thought they were all smiley, happy, innocent Africans who weren't genetically able to cheat.

Now we've had the German documentary, the failed tests, the admission by Kiptanui that Kenya had a massive filthy doping problem, the public perception is changing.

Off course, you've still got the silly fanboys like yourself and Douglas that are Lance-fan like in your defense of these cheaters, but the IAAF realise that now is the time to crack down. If not in a massive public way, but we're going to see it in the results.

This has little to do with EPO and other PEDs and a lot to do with money. There is too much money offered in marathons and road races across the world, and little in Cross Country. Therefore Kenya, Morocco and Ethiopia are not getting their top runners to this meet.

Take a look at all the great Kenyan runners that will be running marathons in the next month. Even the top US runners aren't participating.

First of all congrats to Team USA.

Now, stop being ridiculous about it. This has nothing to do with drugs or testing. The Kenyans brought over a weak team and this was known from the start. Do you recognize ANY big names on the mens team? Korir, the winner, is loaded with talent and just became a senior. No one else made top 10.

Its the first time in a long time that the US brought over a strong team and it showed.

Do you really believe the Kenyans are worried about some new American domination? Wow.

There is money to be had and their top guys know it and want it. They have always had issues with their men showing up for World Cross. Lets watch and see as track and road season opens up. Did you notice the depth of their junior men? They arent yet ready for big time races, and they brought out the best. How come they weren't scared of testing positive?

Enjoy the win, but get over the garbage about how the Kenyans are running scared or are all doped up. Just not true. For the most part the posters here are pretty clueless.

Just curious if anyone in Poland knows how far the course loop was? Just from watching the races on-line, the footing was poor at best and the course looked slow with the turns and hill, etc. The results don't say the distance. I know the IAAF just gives them a range the course has to be within.

Guessing the men were closer to 11k then 12k and women around 7 1/4 k.

I found this race more entertaining than the past X editions.

Why? Because the course was tougher than usual. Mostly however because the Kenyans brought their E team and the Etiopians brought their B team. As a result, for me, it was nice to see an Australian and an American in the mix. It would have been even more entertaining if France, Germany, Mexico, Portugal, Italy, Ukraine... Had brought a team.

I say that Kenya should not be allowed to bring any of their top 25 guys and Ethiopia any of their top 15...

They could run their own race to see who is really the best runner...

Called it on Kimbia site. Still needs some editing; they took out some of my wilder, literary stuff. Coached Strang in HS. Ben was a teammate of my son's at Dartmouth. Happy these kids were part of this history!

The actual loop was 1950m and the start was about 100m. I'm not sure how long it was to the finish but you can estimate the total distance from this.

Ya don't want them to exclude all the African nations?

Just send us the medals is a bit too far I guess.

Biggest surprise of the day was Toroitich. He is only an 8:23 steeplechaser (and now 5th!). He was not top 20 material at the beg of the day.

run2god wrote:

its not like US had our top dogs either.

The guys who ran are the top dogs. The stay-at-homeys are non-dogs.

No way they came through 10k in 27:17 out there and kept going another 2k as reported by the IAAF. Someone is a bit off.

The Polish folks must have their own "meter" distance then.

Not quite there wrote:

No way they came through 10k in 27:17 out there and kept going another 2k as reported by the IAAF. Someone is a bit off.

The Polish folks must have their own "meter" distance then.

Nobody outside of US cares about times on xc

Great performance by USA men's team

In real XC, "close enough" is good enough ... no on cares about times, it is about placement and scoring.

Not quite there wrote:

No way they came through 10k in 27:17 out there and kept going another 2k as reported by the IAAF. Someone is a bit off.

The Polish folks must have their own "meter" distance then.

I fully agree with those who say the course length isn't very important. If you are curious about it, I fully understand, but it's cross country, not track, and you throw out the watch.

I only write in the hope some of our athletes will read this far through the thread so I can say how proud I am of each and everyone of them. Great job, all American athletes !

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You mean like in 1992 when the Kenyan's won in the snow? Umm.

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Kenyan's what?