More Kenyan Doping

your username is spot on.

They need to start giving them fines for previous prize money they won while doped, and perma banning them from future competition. In 2 years, Im sure they will be winning all sorts of races again...

boot to the head wrote:

They need to start giving them fines for previous prize money they won while doped, and perma banning them from future competition. In 2 years, Im sure they will be winning all sorts of races again...

this

where is Canova now to respond to these busts?

I was suspicious last year with Canova's incredibly deep knowledge of EPO and how it is processed, tested, etc.

Something tells me now that his knowledge is what it is because he helps his athletes pass drug test after drug test.

I'm sure this post will be deleted momentarily. Thanks Brojos.

The Italian Albino will deny deny deny.

Renato Canova is here, and doesn't hide himself behind a finger, like the most part of people in Letsrun.

The fact some athlete can use doping doesn't mean this can work for the top runners.

I explained several times that, with the specific attitude and the physiological qualities of the top runners, EPO doesn't give any advantage, and I continue to support this thesis, also if can seem I'm a ignorant or a cheater.

I continue to say that all the best Kenyan athletes are completely clean (my athletes of sure), and the evidence is that all the athletes under doping were unknown runners, in many cases very weak, with the only ecception of Mathew Kisorio and of Erupe. I also explained that Kisorio (who also took steroids) ran all his PB BEFORE starting to get some doping, so the fact he can be positive can only support what I say : EPO DOESN'T HELP TOP KENYAN ATHLETES.

Somebody continues to ask "which prooves I have EPO doesn't work". I ask "which prooves you have EPO works", not basing your opinion on some research NEVER DONE WITH TOP ATHLETES, but on the reality of some top runner clean, later getting EPO and showing some improvement.

I have the proof that it's possible to better WR in steeple (7'53"), in 30 km (1:26'47"), to run under 26'55" (9 athletes), under 60' HM (14 athletes), to win WCh (Christopher Koskei, Saaeed Shaheen, Dorcus Inzikuru, Paul Kosgei, Florence Kiplagat, Imane Merga, Wilson Kiprop, Abel Kirui) in different distances, COMPLETELY CLEAN.

And I cant believe that all these athletes could run 1 minute faster in 10000m in case of EPO (so, 9 my athletes under 26').

You can believe or not believe what I say, but I never go to change my opinion, because, different from the most part of people here, I KNOW WHAT IS POSSIBLE TO DO IN NATURAL WAY, WITHOUT ANY SUPPORT, and this is already faster of what people think possible to do with doping.

This fact doesn't mean we don't need to fight any doping in very strong way. But one of the best systems for fighting doping is exactly to explain that the advantages are very little or nothing, depending on the qualities of the athletes, and the final goal is to fill the pockets of doctors, cheaters with a plate of being experts, because they say exactly what many cheaters athletes want to hear, without real scientific bases.

Mr. Canova,

While I have a lot of respect for your, I seriously doubt the statement "doping doesn't mean this can work for the top runners is true.

How is a female marathoner running 2:26:41 (her PB, by slashing more than 10min of previous PB) in the punishing elevation of Nairobi not a top runner?

Maybe you mean the runner (Jerono Biwott) wasn't a top runner if she didn't dope. However, the truth obviously is "among the top runners", some do dope to get there.

Furthermore, it's hard to believe that doping would work for a 2:36 female marathoner (Biwott's supposedly non-doping time) but would suddenly cease to work for 2:26 or better female marathoners.

For the life of God are American white people the people capable of breaking 13 minutes without cheating!?

Sorry, hard to say without laughing.

Not a top runner wrote:

How is a female marathoner running 2:26:41 (her PB, by slashing more than 10min of previous PB) in the punishing elevation of Nairobi not a top runner?

She's 11 minutes off the world record. Can she come anywhere near 30:00 for 10000m?

I hope it is removed.Its rude and I am not a legal professional but it could be slanderous...Is it coffee time for the kids in America .Very excitable bunch altogether..Coming from the home of the King of Cheats (Lance) Maybe you guys have a built in intuition, but not everyone who is winning is cheating...Stay off the coffee lad.

I wouldnt bother , its a good theory , and hey lets test it...People will have a certain opinion and even if it didnt increase a top athletes performance , these guys would say that they are all chaets anyway unless they were american that is. Isn't that right lads.

Even if you are correct in saying that EPO won't help the top runners we're still left with the matter of someone who is not naturally a top runner becoming one via something like EPO.

HRE wrote:

Even if you are correct in saying that EPO won't help the top runners we're still left with the matter of someone who is not naturally a top runner becoming one via something like EPO.

^^^^^This^^^^^^^

This is the whole point - and the one that Renato never addresses. There is a lot of evidence that doping can be worth nearly 10 seconds over 1500 (in Ramzi's case). Were the MANY random dudes running 12:55 in the 90s actually 'top athletes' or were they just 13:20 guys when clean?

5 drug busts in a matter of weeks? I trust Moses Kiptunai - doping is rampant.

Respectfully, and I have much respect for you Coach canova, but I disagree with you, wholeheartedly.

so epo makes horses, rats, mice, and white people a hell of a lot faster, but not east africans that can run some arbitrarily fast time? what a load of crap.

i love your training principles and am very thankful for you having shared them with us, but really, what you are proposing about epo goes against a mountain of scientific evidence of how the body processes oxygen. if what you say is true, we should be able to remove a liter of blood from any top east african and it will not slow them down one bit.

These debates on the "Canova hypothesis" go nowhere because the theory isn't testable in any practical sense. The more interesting questions are: Who is managing these athletes that were busted? What training groups are they in? Where are they based? Who are their training partners? Who is providing the drugs? Where does the money come from? Answers to these questions will provide a clearer picture of what is going on in Kenya.

Not accusing, just curious. One of the benefits of EPO is quick recovery (correct me if I'm wrong). Is it possible that athletes benefit more from this? If an athlete can recover more quickly, they can train harder and race (highly favorable when competing in something like the TDF) with more frequency. I would say this is as much a benefit as anything. If so, this would benefit any athlete, top-level or otherwise.

Ice of the Tipberg wrote:

Respectfully, and I have much respect for you Coach canova, but I disagree with you, wholeheartedly.

Absolutely this. His post reads like a kid trying to defend the existence of santa.

noce wrote:

These debates on the "Canova hypothesis" go nowhere because the theory isn't testable in any practical sense. The more interesting questions are: Who is managing these athletes that were busted? What training groups are they in? Where are they based? Who are their training partners? Who is providing the drugs? Where does the money come from? Answers to these questions will provide a clearer picture of what is going on in Kenya.

I would love to see an unimpeachable champion distance runner as his retirement gift to t/f do this:

Run a good indoor track 5k. (to control for weather)

do another 5k, same track, after gorging on EPO for a couple months in training.

And then retire.

No, it will never happen - it would take a very strange guy to do it, but it might wake up the IAAF/WADA to how powerful the stuff is. Some super crusader.

Or not.