Wow: Oscar P's sobbing was so good the judge stopped the proceedings: "My compassion as a human being does not allow me to

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11 years ago 02/19/2013 12:03pm EST

re: no trigger lock

1. My girlfriend always locks the door, every time. Habit.

no trigger lock wrote:
2. He went to the balcony to close the door. He heard noise and possibly came in low to get gun from under bed, not noticing Reeva was not there. OR, it was too dark on her side of the bed for him to see.
3. Supposedly he called out and told her to call police, and yelled for the intruder to go away - so could have thought intruder was hiding in bathroom with god knows what. Shoot first, ask questions later, as gun nuts say...
It's a defense, not sure it is a good one, the only way it makes sense is in the context of SA, an overly on alarm guy with guns for self protection...alcohol, drugs...
The only way he is innocent, is if everything that could go wrong and be screwed up was..
It'll say this, the amount of emotion in the court room makes a case that he is heartbroken.
I think there is a lot we have yet to learn about the story.
The leaks may not all be accurate. The police records may reveal a lot more -- a lot more that could make him look slam dunk guilty, or a lot more that could make it look like one of the stupidest gun nut tragedies on record.
Already in the public record is the record of a guy with bats, handgun, machine gun, in his bedroom, false alarms, trouble sleeping, taking journalist to the shooting range...
Eventually we'll get something akin to the answers...but nothing is going to bring that lovely young woman back to live, and if he was in love with her, and this is all just a series of crazy things gone wrong...all the more tragic.
is it a good defense? not sure that I see this as good:
from the words of Oscar:
he goes to the balcony to get a fan on stumps (presumably w/o gun)
has to go back to the bedroom to get gun from under bed
then calls out and then fires 4 shots to protect himself and Reeva
from the words of his lawyer: she locked herself in the bathroom
So, earlier it is reported Oscar either did not know or forgot she was there and mistook her for an intruder. She got there at 6pm and they went to sleep at 10pm
this is what doesn't makes sense to me
1. is it likely that a woman spending the night locks herself in the bathroom
2. when reaching under the bed for a gun to protect one's loved one, does one not either look at the bed to see that loved one is ok or alert that loved one prior to firing shots
3.OP is supposed to be proficient with firearms and presumably some sense of safety in their use: so did he know his target and what was beyond his target? in other words before he shot did he identify his target as an actual threat vs. perceived and what was beyond his target if he missed or the bullet traveled through
4. what intruder sneaks into a house through a second or third story window, and then locks the door
5. what was the noise complaint from neighbors at 1:30 am about?
6. shots fired at 3:20am neighbors call police, OP calls his dad
isn't it still premeditated murder to use deadly force even if you are mistaken about identity? I mean it is sad that OP made the mistake, if he did, but legally that doesn't change anything as far as I can tell. Does it??
having said all this, I probably am coming to this with a lot of skepticism as to OP's story, and I would sincerely be interested why you think it is a good defense

11 years ago 02/19/2013 12:05pm EST

re: jono

jono wrote:
The story is just a way to get sympathy. His family and friends standing by him etc.

There is no one to get sympathy from. There are no jury trials in SA. One judge, and two assistants.

The judges down there don't mess around.

11 years ago 02/19/2013 12:06pm EST

re: He has

I wonder if he actually killed her with the cricket bat in the earlier dispute and shot her several times a couple of hours later, after he'd figured out his intruder story.

11 years ago 02/19/2013 12:09pm EST

re: no lawyer

no lawyer wrote:
I'm pretty sure you are not going to get charged with premeditated murder because of your mistake. Premeditated means you intentionally meant to kill the person. He could get charged with a lesser crime, maybe manslaughter or something if police believed his story.
Your point 3 is my biggest hangup. What type of person shoots blindly through a door without knowing what is on the other side? I know it has happened before but it really is inexcusable. That kind of crap makes all gun owners look bad.

The groundwork is there in his past in that NYT article, about the false alarm, didn't he go downstairs with a gun ready to shoot?

This might have been a guy unhealthily on edge about home security.

Not saying he is innocent...the only way he is innocent is if all the crazy things that had to happen for him to be innocent, did actually happen.

11 years ago 02/19/2013 12:24pm EST

re: He has

He has wrote:
Read his full statement.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57570059/oscar-pistorius-account-of-fatal-shooting-in-his-own-words/
His story covers several of the questions this thread has raised.

The sounds a lot more plausible.

Let's say it is true. For non SA's, it is going to be harder to relate to any of the open window, ladders, fear of home assault stuff.

Anyone who has friends from there, or who has visited SA, knows that it is a very dangerous place.

11 years ago 02/19/2013 12:25pm EST

re: Dennis Reynolds

Dennis Reynolds wrote:
...really? wrote:
What is Reeva locked the bathroom door after hearing Oscar yelling? Maybe she was staying quiet as she didn't want to reveal her position to a potential intruder? When you hear someone yelling like that, you don't automatically think everything is ok, she most likely didn't think Oscar was referring to whoever was in the bathroom. I don't know really, we still need to hear more.
The things people said about how OJ might have been innocent were equally hilarious.

The problem with that was that OJ was BOTH framed, AND guilty.

11 years ago 02/19/2013 12:25pm EST

re: dsrunner

dsrunner wrote:
I wonder if he actually killed her with the cricket bat in the earlier dispute and shot her several times a couple of hours later, after he'd figured out his intruder story.

Not to quibble, but forensics will easily determine whether the woman was dead when OP shot her. If he beat her to death hours or even minutes beforehand, there would be minimal bleeding around the bullet wound(s), depending on what was hit, compared to a shot that strikes the functioning circulatory system of a live victim.

This is not to say that OP knows this or wouldn't make up such a fable anyway.

11 years ago 02/19/2013 12:30pm EST

re: Not to Quibble

Here is the full affidavit.http://www.letsrun.com/news/2013/02/oscar-pistoriuss-full-affidavit/It was released by his PR firm so I'll post all of point 16- the merits of his case - here.

Pistorius' affidavit read:
16. MERITS
16.1 My legal representatives have explained the provisions of Section 60(11) of the Act to me. I respectfully make the following submissions in this regard:
16.2 I have been informed that I am accused of having committed the offence of murder. I deny the aforesaid allegation in the strongest terms.
16.3 I am advised that I do not have to deal with the merits of the case for purposes of the bail application. However, I believe that it is appropriate to deal with the merits in this application, particularly in view of the State’s contention that I planned to murder Reeva.
Nothing can be further from the truth and I have no doubt that it is not possible for the State to present objective facts to substantiate such an allegation, as there is no substance in the allegation. I do not know on what different facts the allegation of a premeditated murder could be premised and I respectfully request the State to furnish me with such alleged facts in order to allow me to refute such allegations.
16.4 On the 13th of February 2013 Reeva would have gone out with her friends and I with my friends. Reeva then called me and asked that we rather spend the evening at home. I agreed and we were content to have a quiet dinner together at home. By about 22h00 on 13 February 2013 we were in our bedroom. She was doing her yoga exercises and I was in bed watching television. My prosthetic legs were off. We were deeply in love and I could not be happier. I know she felt the same way. She had given me a present for Valentine’s Day but asked me only to open it the next day.
16.5 After Reeva finished her yoga exercises she got into bed and we both fell asleep.
16.6 I am acutely aware of violent crime being committed by intruders entering homes with a view to commit crime, including violent crime. I have received death threats before. I have also been a victim of violence and of burglaries before. For that reason I kept my firearm, a 9 mm Parabellum, underneath my bed when I went to bed at night.
16.7 During the early morning hours of 14 February 2013, I woke up, went onto the balcony to bring the fan in and closed the sliding doors, the blinds and the curtains. I heard a noise in the bathroom and realised that someone was in the bathroom.
16.8 I felt a sense of terror rushing over me. There are no burglar bars across the bathroom window and I knew that contractors who worked at my house had left the ladders outside. Although I did not have my prosthetic legs on I have mobility on my stumps.
16.9 I believed that someone had entered my house. I was too scared to switch a light on.
16.10 I grabbed my 9mm pistol from underneath my bed. On my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house and for Reeva to phone the police. It was pitch dark in the bedroom and I thought Reeva was in bed.
16.11 I noticed that the bathroom window was open. I realised that the intruder/s was/were in the toilet because the toilet door was closed and I did not see anyone in the bathroom. I heard movement inside the toilet. The toilet is inside the bathroom and has a separate door.
16.12 It filled me with horror and fear of an intruder or intruders being inside the toilet. I thought he or they must have entered through the unprotected window.
As I did not have my prosthetic legs on and felt extremely vulnerable, I knew I had to protect Reeva and myself. I believed that when the intruder/s came out of the toilet we would be in grave danger. I felt trapped as my bedroom door was locked and I have limited mobility on my stumps.
16.13 I fired shots at the toilet door and shouted to Reeva to phone the police. She did not respond and I moved backwards out of the bathroom, keeping my eyes on the bathroom entrance. Everything was pitch dark in the bedroom and I was still too scared to switch on a light. Reeva was not responding.
16.14 When I reached the bed, I realised that Reeva was not in bed. That is when it dawned on me that it could have been Reeva who was in the toilet. I returned to the bathroom calling her name. I tried to open the toilet door but it was locked. I rushed back into the bedroom and opened the sliding door exiting onto the balcony and screamed for help.
16.15 I put on my prosthetic legs, ran back to the bathroom and tried to kick the toilet door open. I think I must then have turned on the lights.
I went back into the bedroom and grabbed my cricket bat to bash open the toilet door. A panel or panels broke off and I found the key on the floor and unlocked and opened the door. Reeva was slumped over but alive.
16.16 I battled to get her out of the toilet and pulled her into the bathroom. I phoned Johan Stander (“Stander”) who was involved in the administration of the estate and asked him to phone the ambulance. I phoned Netcare and asked for help. I went downstairs to open the front door.
16.17 I returned to the bathroom and picked Reeva up as I had been told not to wait for the paramedics, but to take her to hospital. I carried her downstairs in order to take her to the hospital. On my way down Stander arrived. A doctor who lives in the complex also arrived. Downstairs, I tried to render the assistance to Reeva that I could, but she died in my arms.
16.18 I am absolutely mortified by the events and the devastating loss of my beloved Reeva. With the benefit of hindsight I believe that Reeva went to the toilet when I went out on the balcony to bring the fan in. I cannot bear to think of the suffering I have caused her and her family, knowing how much she was loved. I also know that the events of that tragic night were as I have described them and that in due course I have no doubt the police and expert investigators will bear this out.

11 years ago 02/19/2013 12:32pm EST

re: Precious Roy

Who cares. Did they or did they not find steroids?

11 years ago 02/19/2013 12:32pm EST

re: no taste in music

If home invastions are rampant in SA to the point people arm themselves at the ready to defend themselves, and mistaking a loved one for an intruder in the middle of the night is somewhat common, then you would think it would be a habit among the citizens to awake your spouse, et al if you need to get up in the middle of the night to use the restroom, etc. ESPECIALLY if your mate has already expressed a fear of being a victim of a crime and has a somewhat itchy trigger finger. Just saying....

11 years ago 02/19/2013 12:32pm EST

re: rojo

rojo wrote:
You 'knew?'
I think you are rushing to free him just as much as they anyone might be rushing to convict.
How can anyone except for maybe Oscar or the people he called right after know for sure right now?

It's just like the Casey Anthony case where every stupid motherfuker wants to make himself look smart by claiming to "know" exactly what happened. Bullsh*t. None of you have the slightest clue. You didn't witness the incident, nor do you have anything to go by other than reports written by other people whose reliability you cannot account for. Just shut up and quit pretending that you stupid liberal azzholes have any idea what happened.

11 years ago 02/19/2013 12:36pm EST

re: no trigger lock

How many of your girlfriends or wives lock the bathroom door when they go during the middle of the night?

11 years ago 02/19/2013 12:40pm EST

re: rojo

It's official, StubHub has dropped Oscar P. from their marketing campaign.

11 years ago 02/19/2013 12:41pm EST

re: no taste in music

regardless of how dangerous SA is, that doesn't change the facts of the case. I read his account of that night, I believe it, I believe it was entirely an accident that he killed his girlfriend. However, in reading it, he sounds like a total paranoid psychotic with a gun fetish, exactly the type of person unfit to live in society. And he just proved it by murdering his girlfriend.

Any reasonable person would have assumed that it was the other person sleeping in the room (the girlfriend) who got up and went to the bathroom. They would have gotten back in bed and of course the girlfriend isn't in the bed, because she is in the bathroom. Done, no gun shots, no murder.

However, given that SA is dangerous lets say that along with the idea that it could be his girlfriend in the bathroom, it is reasonable for Pistorius to think maybe it's an intruder. So as he's retrieving his gun from under the bed he takes one second to put his hand on top of the bed to see if his girlfriend is in the bed. If he had done that he'd known it was her in the bathroom and put away the gun. Again, no gun shots, no murder. And because clearly his intention was to blindly shoot into the bathroom, not even taking one second to check to see if his girlfriend is in the bed is unacceptable and shows he is at the very least not fit to own guns, given the fact that he then went and killed someone under these circumstances shows he's not fit for society.

Even saying, okay he didn't check to see that she was in the bed, fine, now he goes towards the bathroom with the gun and instead of screaming about intruders and calling the cops, someone fit to live in society would have asked if it is his girlfriend who is in the bathroom before unloading 4 bullets into the door. Since we know that she was in the bathroom, since he started yelling about an intruder she was probably trying to stay quiet in the bathroom. But instead of figuring out her whereabouts, especially the fact that he made no attempt to ascertain if she was in the bathroom at all, he just unloads a gun into the door. Shoot first blindly at paranoid fears, ask questions later to figure out you are the murderer of your own girlfriend.

The fact is he clearly went to the bathroom with the intent on murdering someone. Because he murdered his girlfriend instead of an intruder doesn't change the fact that he shot with the purpose of murder. And as explained above, if he had been fit to live in society (not a paranoid psycho with a gun fetish) then no way in hell that woman ever dies.

11 years ago 02/19/2013 12:42pm EST

re: Addicted to HS

"How many of your girlfriends or wives lock the bathroom door when they go during the middle of the night?"

Yah it seems unlikely she'd lock the door unless that was her habit. It's also possible she locked the door in response to OP yelling that there may be an intruder.

11 years ago 02/19/2013 12:46pm EST

re: no taste in music

no taste in music wrote:
Dennis Reynolds wrote:
The things people said about how OJ might have been innocent were equally hilarious.
The problem with that was that OJ was BOTH framed, AND guilty.

Meant to say *if instead of is. Anyways, I know you're probably trolling, but others are so quick to either go to his defense and automatically assumes he's innocent or vice versa. You weren't there. Neither was I. It's a news story, so obviously not everything is always going to be 100%, but how do they prosecutors know for sure he was on prosthetics when he shot the 4 bullets through the door? Please don't assume that everything I'm saying I believe to be 100% accurate, I'm not ignorant. The only way to find out what really happened is to remain open to every scenario and see which one best fits the evidence presented....

11 years ago 02/19/2013 12:53pm EST

re: give him 20

"Shoot first blindly at paranoid fears, ask questions later to figure out you are the murderer of your own girlfriend."

It looks to me like OP's statement essentially agrees with everything you just said. He admits to killing her. He admits he was extremely fearful of intruders and admits doing all you describe. Except he can't fathom that his mistakes equate to premeditated murder.

11 years ago 02/19/2013 1:16pm EST

re: no taste in music

I don't understand point 16.12 where he says the bedroom door was locked. Or am I being simple?

Is it realistic that the bedroom was too dark to see the bed clearly? Given he was closing the curtains, there must have been some light from the street surely?

I am guessing that the following points have been fabricated by the media:

1. Argument earlier in the evening,

2. Bullet fired in the bedroom,

3. Skull caved-in ( perhaps a fracture caused by hitting her head having been shot?)

Tragic, but fascinating.

11 years ago 02/19/2013 1:27pm EST

re: rojo

was his gf in the bathroom ALSO with the light our?!

anyway, forensic ballistics, a common practice now by police in crime investigation involving shooting, should be able to decide if he lied. It should all line up well from where he held the gun (didn't wear his prosthetic), to the gun holes on the bathroom door thru the girl's head wounds.

11 years ago 02/19/2013 1:32pm EST

re: RunningHigh

I must be the only one that feels heartbroken for him. None of us know what happen, but he is clearly distraught over what has transpired. He may have truely believed she was an intruder. If he did have some sort of roid rage, it is unfortunate he acted in such violence and now he is paying the consequences for an obviously lapse in judgement.

Either way, all the way around sad situation for EVERYONE including Oscar P.

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