really wrote:
hermens did refer 2 dopers to a spanish doping doctor
hermens then claimed he referred them for homeopathy
-if you can believe that
is farah on a bunch of tues or not?
personally i don't believe in his transition to world beater
from my experience of cycling -the difference isn't gadgets and training differences
it is always the peds(in cycling anyhow)
odelltrclan wrote:
The premise for this whole thread is nauseating. Then the LRC praise the person who starts the thread and treats him like some celebrity. This is a joke. The message boards here is so full of drug accusations it is almost worth not coming here to read.
LRC seems to be the place where you can slander someone without any recourse for those athletes. Here are some comments for you Brojos:
1. Everyone knows that drugs are a problems in a wide variety of sports.
2. One of those sports happen to be running and track.
3. How difficult is it to question anyone who is doing well and "asking the hard questions" about doping? Is it really asking hard questions, or just, for the billionth time, slandering someone's name without proof, other than, wow look at their somewhat sudden improvements.
Constantly accusing people without proof does nothing the sport, it only denigrates it. We all know there are problems, but, in this country you are innocent until proven guilty. You get hard proof, talk away, otherwise, stop slandering at every corner because you can hide behind internet aliases.
Duane Solomon got a new coach, Johnny Gray, and was headed for what might has been his final Olympics. Two factors that had a huge role in where he is now.
Galen Rupp has been improving slowly over many years. Two years ago he gets Mo Farah as a training partner. They have both benefited greatly from that relationship as well as the science that Nike provides.
Until you have actual proof, STFU and stop thinking that every time someone gets to a certain level it is time to start "asking the hard questions" (translated: Accusing athletes of cheating).
We all know it happens. We all worry that our favorite athletes may have used or are on drugs and hope they are not. We all want a clean sport. "Asking the hard questions" on message boards does nothing but ruin the discussions.
A Duck wrote:
Mo looked well on the rise before he got to Salazar.
post it noter wrote:
wejo wrote:
With this thread we are saying it is ok for people to post and discuss whether athlete X or Y is doping. It leads to a cleaner sport.
The point you are missing "A Duck" is that just because you wonder about an improved performance has to mean you conclude it is because of doping. But here is nothing wrong with wondering or having the conversation.
You're just being disingenuous and you know it.
This thread is about DOPING and was created solely because Patrick White couldn't fathom Rupp's long term improvement and the performances of he and Solomon.
That's the ONLY REASON.
Personal insecurity.
Your endorsement of that and then your insinuation that this mud-slinging will somehow "clean up the sport" is flat-out delusional.
You insisting that anyone and everyone should do what YOU want is ridiculous. You treat some people like crap in your interviews. Why would they want to go so far out of their way to satisfy whatever demands you have as far as proving their innocence? It'll NEVER be enough. Ever! Plus the questions posed. Disgusting! Abdi and Rupp both spring to mind last year when you or Rojo or whoever tried one of your asinine "gotcha" moments.
It's sickening, it's horrible form, and it is a disgrace to "journalism".
And that you do that under the pretense of "cleaning up the sport" just shows the lengths that you will go to try and justify your ridiculous behavior.
You SHOULD feel like scumbags because the way you bring it up and the slimy, disgusting behavior you ENCOURAGE on these boards is precisely the work of scumbags.
A Duck wrote:
This thread and the pimping of it by the Blojo's just proves their desperate agenda to justify slandering and smearing primarily One Runner and One Coach for over the past half decade.
Disingenuous, pathetic and juvenile.
You want to beat a drum? Beat a drum for tougher penalties. Tougher testing.
You never get into what WADA and the IAAF do in detail. THAT takes too much work. Slandering and smearing elite runners...only takes a few seconds.
You want to sing your own praises?
Then instead of claiming you ask the questions credentialed media don't ask, the next time you are in front of Rupp or whomever you suspect, in the mixed zone, ask the questions like men.
You won't because you are little cowards on the internet, and not credible journalists.
Disingenuous spoiled children in the darkness of your message boards. Lame.
Do some work. Some actual work. Reform your cesspool of a website and become a credible source.
Wait, that takes actual work and critical thinking.
Kudo's to those who join me in defending those bashed and abused, slandered and smeared on this website over the past half decade+.
...There is a reason exactly Zero Elite runners will be interviewed here.
...There is a reason exactly Zero Elite USA coaches will be interviewed here.
There is a reason almost every university and high school coach has a policy BANNING their teams from frequenting this website.
The Lojo's can revel in bad faith, bad behavior, and delusion all they want -- the entire nation of organized runners CAN'T be wrong.
This site has exactly ZERO credibility.
A Duck wrote:
The IAAF is using Bio Passports, and busting people. You gotta trust them to do their job.
(The only time I have seen an anonymous poster challenge that notion -- they are trashing Kenyans. Well guess what, first fairly weak sign of evidence by the German media, and the IAAF created a way to get to Kenya and do surprise tests. UCI wouldn't have done a thing.)
jonesy johnson wrote:
A Duck wrote:
Mo looked well on the rise before he got to Salazar.
No, not that kind of rise. That's like saying that Lance looked "well on the rise" before he got to PEDs. He probably was improving when he started using.
jonesy johnson wrote:
A Duck wrote:
You can trust it. I posted here a year or two ago that one reason Rupp is so good is that he genuinely loves running.
Alberto's interview a few days ago? He talks about how a key to it all is that Galen actually loves running.
Well, this should end the thread. Galen loves running. Galen genuinely loves running. That should put to rest any suspicions about PEDs. Galen actually loves running. End of thread.
A Duck wrote:
THERE IS A REASON EXACTLY ZERO ELITE USA ATHLETES WILL AGREE TO BE INTERVIEWED BY THIS WEBSITE.
THERE IS A REASON EXACTLY ZERO ELITE USA COACHES WILL AGREE TO BE INTERVIEWED BY THIS WEBSITE.
THERE IS A REASON ALMOST EVERY SINGLE UNIVERSITY AND HIGH SCHOOL BANS THEIR ATHLETES FROM VISITING THIS WEBSITE.
I have made these statements based on reading actual comments and interviews from athletes and coaches over the years:
This website has exactly ZERO Credibility.
To those that agree, please keep posting this facts forever into the future.
The Blojo's have been deleting them, which is pretty crazy.
You can accuse an elite athlete of PED use here, but you can't state the truth about the reputation of this website with out the Blojo's deleting it.
GUYS, you pimp yourselves on the front page, you are going to get debated.
Man up and let it stand.
wejo wrote:
Well this thread shows how you can't make everyone happy. Poster "A Duck" is crucifying us for being unfair to Galen Rupp and his team yet poster "Andrew Dawson" says we have specific information about Mo Farah and are not doing anything with it.
I can assure you "Andre Dawson's" allegations are false. If anyone has any information on any doping matters you can email me confidentially at [email protected]
Now I guess "A Duck" would say "Andrew Dawson's" post is libelous but we have explained our position on why we let such posts exists.
Now onto some of "A Duck's" arguments:
A Duck wrote:
...There is a reason exactly Zero Elite runners will be interviewed here.
...There is a reason exactly Zero Elite USA coaches will be interviewed here.
There is a reason almost every university and high school coach has a policy BANNING their teams from frequenting this website.
The Lojo's can revel in bad faith, bad behavior, and delusion all they want -- the entire nation of organized runners CAN'T be wrong.
This site has exactly ZERO credibility.
"A Duck" I guess you live in your own version of reality.
I'm trying to think if we've ever had an athlete refuse an interview and can't think of an instance.
Then instead of claiming you ask the questions credentialed media don't ask, the next time you are in front of Rupp or whomever you suspect, in the mixed zone, ask the questions like men.
You won't because you are little cowards on the internet, and not credible journalists.
I guess you don't get it.
I did ask Carmelita Jeter about her association with Mark Block at the Olympics. And I had some of the most prominent journalists in the Olympic movement come up and congratulate me on the question.
Everytime I see Galen Rupp I'm not going to ask him about doping. Why would I do that? All I'm doing with this thread is saying it is ok for people to discuss whether they believe athlete X or Y is doping.
I do think someone should do an article on thyroid medication and its possible potential for abuse by athletes in light of Jos Hermen's comments at the Olympics. (Jos Hermens said to Dutch journalist Marco Knippen who translated the quotes into English and emailed them to me, "Science has triumphed over nature. Formally Farah and Rupp are doing nothing illegal. I rather just questioning if Farah during a doping control hands a laundry list of products specified, for which he apparently has a certificate." and "Within the environment knows almost everyone that it is used. Thyroid hormone affects all. I do not understand why it is not on the banned list.") Maybe I'll be the person who does that article. I do think athletes should be asked why they won't make their TUEs public and Marco did ask Galen about his TUEs at the Olympics and reported to me that Galen said, "About my
personal medical record I do not talk." Does that mean Galen is doping? No.
Do I think athletes should reveal their TUEs for medically non-sensitive conditions? Yes.
With this thread we are saying it is ok for people to post and discuss whether athlete X or Y is doping. It leads to a cleaner sport.
People can ask the same questions about Paula Radcliffe who I consider a personal friend.
In these threads people point things out that lead to journalists asking questions. I had no idea Felix Sanchez and Duane Solomon train in the same group. Someone pointed that out and that is worth looking into and asking a question about. Does it mean they are doping? No. Is it worth looking into? Yes. Will it cause Duane hopefully to push for an even cleaner sport? I hope so.
While you think threads like this are slandering your Ducks I think you have it wrong. It lets information be discussed both pro and con whether someone might be doping. In the thyroid thread, I pointed out that Paula Radcliffe and Ryan Hall have indicated they are on thyroid medication as well.
People in threads on this subject often point to the paper Alberto Salazar gave at Duke in 1999 where he said, "I believe that it is currently difficult to be among the top 5 in the world in any of the distance events without using EPO or Human Growth Hormone" and then point out he now has two athletes 1-2 and the world trying to make some sort of connection to doping.
http://law.duke.edu/sites/default/files/migrated_files/dl_file-sportscenter-salazar_4.pdf
At the Olympics after the 10k, Alberto said to me and others, "Another big problem I believe was there's too many people who use the excuse of drugs, that anyone who runs fast is on drugs. The second you start thinking that as a coach or as an athlete you're basically saying you're not good enough to compete with other people unless you cheat. What I've always told our guys is 'Don't believe all that bull. Those are the losers that say that.' Rather than trying to change their own training to get better they use that as excuse and it's a defeatist attitude. A lot of the mind-set for us was 'We can beat these guys. We've just got to train smart."
http://www.letsrun.com/2012/farah-rupp-0804.php
I asked him at the Olympics about the disconnect between what he said after the 10k and what he said at Duke in 1999. And he had a very good point. He noted that WADA did not exist when he spoke at Duke. Anti-doping was in a complete different era. Now anti-doping is much stronger so his views had changed.
The point being threads like this are a discussion and aren't out to slander athletes. They let people be more informed on the issue.
I think Bill Simmons of ESPN/Grantland said it best in today's QOD: "I believe we need to fix this disconnect between our private conversations and our public ones. Cheating in professional sports is an epidemic. Wondering about the reasons behind a dramatically improved performance, or a dramatically fast recovery time, shouldn't be considered off-limits for media members. We shouldn't feel like scumbags bringing this stuff up. It's part of sports."
So if it's ok for journalists to ask questions then it's ok for fans to discuss the issue as well.
The point you are missing "A Duck" is that just because you wonder about an improved performance has to mean you conclude it is because of doping. But there is nothing wrong with wondering or having the conversation.
A Duck wrote:
Exactly.
Great points, and this is precisely one of my points.
The information is out there.
Patrick White didn't take 20 SECONDS to think things through before making this thread.
--People like you have pointed out Solomon's talent for years. Others have pointed out his progression, like you, on this board, for YEARS. Before the Olympic Trials someone posted that Solomon had been running some hot workouts. Solomon has fans and friends out there that post information.
A Duck wrote:
Wejo,
You are full of crap; and by the disappearing and re-appearing posts tonight my guess is you are drunk, stoned, or scared.
None of your defenses of your behavior towards Rupp get any serious consideration from me UNTIL you acknowledge that your allowing people to call Rupp homophobic names on this website for YEARS, and did not delete such messages when you saw them (unless "2 people or more reported it" in your own words) was wrong, unfair, and bad to the sport.
And then post an open apology to Rupp and his Family.
Otherwise you are just pimping your sad asz on the front page, and making another illustration of what an idiot you are right here.
One question: How many times have you or your brother been in the "mixed zone" and had the chance to ask Rupp a question?
As I said, you never asked a PED question, because you know in your gut he is clean.
wejo wrote:
@"post it noter" People discussed on letsrun.com whether I was doping myself because of my own improvement. It comes with the territory. I considered it the ultimate compliment to my improvement.
I don't think it harmed the sport at all. It caused me to want to push for even more stringent testing to show what can be done by clean athletes.
So @"post it noter" and @"A Duck" and @"Track Coach" what is the magic formula for when letsrun.com can allow discussions on doping. @"Track Coach" says it's ok to allow it for Makhloufi, but apparently we're crazy if we allow it for Solomon or Rupp.
@"Track Coach" wrote "Solomon is not like a Taoufik Makhloufi who never placed in a major competition and then wins the Olympic gold medal."
For the record, Makhloufi did run 3:32.94 in Monaco in 2010 according to all-athletics. I'm sure many people in Algeria have perfectly good explanations for his improvement.
What about Manzano? Can we allow the discussion for him? Because if Makhloufi is cheating then that would make Manzano the gold medalist. Would he be on limits or off limits?
I guess some magic birdy is supposed to tell us when it is OK?
Or is it we're only not supposed to allow it for athletes we like and "know" are clean ie the Americans?
The point is one I like to reiterate. Paula Radcliffe said at the end of the day you ultimately only know about one athlete being clean or dirty, yourself.
wejo wrote:
@"post it noter" People discussed on letsrun.com whether I was doping myself because of my own improvement. It comes with the territory. I considered it the ultimate compliment to my improvement.
I don't think it harmed the sport at all. It caused me to want to push for even more stringent testing to show what can be done by clean athletes.
So @"post it noter" and @"A Duck" and @"Track Coach" what is the magic formula for when letsrun.com can allow discussions on doping. @"Track Coach" says it's ok to allow it for Makhloufi, but apparently we're crazy if we allow it for Solomon or Rupp.
@"Track Coach" wrote "Solomon is not like a Taoufik Makhloufi who never placed in a major competition and then wins the Olympic gold medal."
For the record, Makhloufi did run 3:32.94 in Monaco in 2010 according to all-athletics. I'm sure many people in Algeria have perfectly good explanations for his improvement.
What about Manzano? Can we allow the discussion for him? Because if Makhloufi is cheating then that would make Manzano the gold medalist. Would he be on limits or off limits?
I guess some magic birdy is supposed to tell us when it is OK?
Or is it we're only not supposed to allow it for athletes we like and "know" are clean ie the Americans?
The point is one I like to reiterate. Paula Radcliffe said at the end of the day you ultimately only know about one athlete being clean or dirty, yourself.
A Duck wrote:
Wheldon get a clue:
Makhloufi vis a vis Manzano has been discussed on this board...for like 30 minutes.
What there isn't here, is an 8 year history of every detail of Makhloufi's career, and your allowing thousands of anonymos posts attacking Rupp as "g_y," attacking his looks, and people posting whole baked slanderous lies about him.
A Duck wrote:
Wheldon,
One at a time: I dare you to answer 100% honestly.
>1. You allowed immature and hateful people to personally attack Rupp as "g_y" because of his first name. You let it go on for years. You both even posted on the same threads without deleting those kinds of personal attacks on the guy. You allowed it to happen when he was technically a child in high school. At that time you also let people accuse him of being on PEDS. You allowed a hate crime type culture of hate to foster here. You did nothing to stop it for years.
Why?
Why no Zero Tolerance towards hate crime level personal attacks on this kid for years?
Why?
^That space above is for your 100% Honest Answer
The space below is for your Personal Apology To Galen Rupp And his Family
Positive Contributions wrote:
ADUck- It's funny, you manage to write in a manner where you alienate people who try to agree with you on some points. Try less words.
Barakus Obama wrote:
[quote]A Duck wrote:
This thread and the pimping of it by the Blojo's just proves their desperate agenda to justify slandering and smearing primarily One Runner and One Coach for over the past half decade.
Disingenuous, pathetic and juvenile.
You want to beat a drum? Beat a drum for tougher penalties. Tougher testing.
You never get into what WADA and the IAAF do in detail. THAT takes too much work. Slandering and smearing elite runners...only takes a few seconds.
You want to sing your own praises?
Then instead of claiming you ask the questions credentialed media don't ask, the next time you are in front of Rupp or whomever you suspect, in the mixed zone, ask the questions like men.
You won't because you are little cowards on the internet, and not credible journalists.
Disingenuous spoiled children in the darkness of your message boards. Lame.
Do some work. Some actual work. Reform your cesspool of a website and become a credible source.
Wait, that takes actual work and critical thinking.
Kudo's to those who join me in defending those bashed and abused, slandered and smeared on this website over the past half decade+.
...There is a reason exactly Zero Elite runners will be interviewed here.
...There is a reason exactly Zero Elite USA coaches will be interviewed here.
There is a reason almost every university and high school coach has a policy BANNING their teams from frequenting this website.
The Lojo's can revel in bad faith, bad behavior, and delusion all they want -- the entire nation of organized runners CAN'T be wrong.
This site has exactly ZERO credibility.
A Duck wrote:
I just didn't bake the idea that elites won't be interviewed here, they've told me.
