68 Olympics-Keino and Jipcho vs Ryun Controversy

This is a joke, right? Hell, Senneca Lassiter sacrificed himself for a runner from a DIFFERENT country! Ever watch the Kenyans, Ethiopians or Morracans race? Ever see their designated rabbits drift back through the pack?

Great point! He took a lot of flack over that.

Do the rabbits that you speak of have a legit chance in

the race? I would love to see the Kenyans, Ethiopians or Morracans race. Television coverage sucks. Sorry for my

igorance. I don't think that Lassiter would sacrifice himself at the Olympics for Berryhill, Goucher, Webb,Krummenacker or who ever makes the team.

At the time at was looked down on. Ben Jipcho did tell Ryun

he was sorry.

Its less likely to happen at the Olympics in 2004.

Folks let's not forget this past Olympiad's 1500m final. Yousseff Baba rabitted for his fellow Moroccan countrymen Hicham El Guerrouj and the plan backfired! Noah Ngeny and Bernard Lagat walked down El Guerrouj and Ngeny passed in the final straight. Is rabitting/sacrificing your own race fair? Sure, but I'm willing to bet Hicham would like to have that race plan back.

Jim Ryun was a big boy. He was responsible for his own race, not Jipcho. I don't think Jipcho did anything wrong.

Jipcho didn't do anything to Ryun. Ryun didn't get sucked into a bad pace. Keino needed the help to get out fast and Ryun did what he had to do. I think that the beat that Jim could ever have hoped for is the silver. Low altitude on the same day would have been another story.

Do you think Jim Ryan would have won if he was born a girl and was cut off by Zola Bud in a race that was lead by Seneca Lassiter on a cinder track at sea level?

Last week during dinner a friend asked me, "malmo, best 1500 ever?" I started into, "I've got to go with any and all of El Guerrouj's 1500's..." He interuupted me with "Keino...Mexico City...3:34". I said "3:34.9". "...OK, let's call it 3:35 if you want... AT ALTITUDE" he responded. "Yeah" I agreed, "7000 feet". "7400 feet" he added.

In all of the years of hearing about all of those great times run at Nairobi's 5500 ft altitude, has anyone yet run 3:35 at 5500 feet much less 7400 feet?

I have the race on tape and ryun went out in last place 15-20m behind the two kenyans from the start. he put himself out of the race. keino ran a great race (and had already run two races not to mention trials in those games). i think it still stands as the largest margin of victory in any championship 1500m final. ryun was lucky to get second. he went out conservative because of the altitude but was just overly conservative. hey, no one's perfect. there was just an article on the front page about kipketer acting as the sacrificial lamb for limo. it happens all the time and if you're willing to do it then so be it. it's a matter of running as a team.

keino would have won even without the help, at least on that day.

Ryun ran 3:37.8 while third place was 3:39.0: hardly lucky to place second. Moreover, given the altitude and that Ryun spent almost his entire life at sea-level, his performance was staggeringly good. I do think, however, that the result at Mexico City would have been more or less the same even if Jipcho were not in the race. However, it would have been extraordinary had the race taken place at sea-level. Keino knew he could not outkick Ryun and thus no doubt would have set a world record pace.

I'm gonna say that I think it's downright wrong for the olympics. The spirit of the olympics is not about giving up your chance for glory for the sake of proving your nation superior--it is just the opposite. It is about individuality, and laying down national dislike, and straying from the desire to prove one nation superior. It is about athletic grace and prowess. So... .that is like mad whacked man.

I disagree that the Olympics are about individuality. If they were you would not be representing the red, white, and blue, you would be representing yourself. It is an honor to represent your country (see flag carrying after each event). The Olympics are a team sport. Unless your talking about Marion Jones, everybody is tallying how many medals each nation won. I saw the 10,00O meters in Atlanta and how the Kenyans tried to push the pace to sting Gebreselasies kick and set up Tergat. It didn't work, but it was a good tactic.

dhocking wrote:

I have the race on tape and ryun went out in last place 15-20m behind the two kenyans from the start. he put himself out of the race. ..... ryun was lucky to get second.

keino would have won even without the help, at least on that day.

The first two comments qualify the poster for the dipshit of the day award.

The last is very much the truth.

In Ryun's biography (or someplace) I remember reading that he and his coach determined long before the race that it would take 3:38 to win, given altitude, bad air, etc. He trained for that and nailed it. Problem was, Keino disagreed. A tragic mistake.

I?m sure that Jipcho felt the same way about Ryan?s kick as Keino did and was just as interested in setting himself up for the win. Being as Keino took the lead on lap three I would expect that if there was an agreement between the two Kenyan?s, it would be Jipcho for two laps, Keino for the third and then may the best man win. Thing is, Keino was the best miler on that day. Ryan was also quoted as saying that he felt he was going to die following the race due to the thin air. Could he really have run a smarter race if this was so? Sounds like he used everything he had to get that silver medal.

Monty

Without a doubt, had Ryun followed Keino/Jipcho from the gun, we would NOT have won the silver. It would have been suicide for a sea-level runner to put up those splits at 7400 feet.

1. Jipcho was an 'up and comer'

2. Keino was a veteran, having had quite a few wars (where he lost) to/with Ryun - usually losing to Ryun's speed/kick (as did everyone at the time)

3. as has been said - Keino knew if Ryun was 'there' with 400 to go - forget it (not so) instant replay

4. Ryun and a very very good race

5. Keino had a great - great race - gutsy, ran fearlessly. Mano y mano ... an epic event almost without equal in sport (imho).

6. if you look at the video - tape .. look at Keino's eye's - then look at Ryun's eye's always a telling sign (same 'eyes' as in the Dream Mile vs Liquori) - this race's eyes were more than a 'sign'. It was Keino's day. the backdrop of Keino's other exploits at Mexico City make it even more amazing.

7. 'Pacing' or team-mate rabbiting was not unusual then and was around since at least 40s but really employed 'over-seas' in 50s and 60s. The '68 1500 first lap was a bit unusual tho.

8. for many many Americans this was a huge upset ... in hindsight tho - perhaps not so much.

...I personally think Keino's 1550/mile race/victory is one of, if not the, best of 'all time' - given all of the conditions etc that have been mentioned.

They were fierce competitors - Keino gracious in winning Ryun, while disappointed, gracious in defeat. They each had a healthy fear of the other.

What a sport .. this running thing.