Mary Cain 17:26 5k @ NYRR Van Cortlandt Park

That has to be the best all-time cross country performance ever on any course for girls. 16:46 at VCP...that's definitely better than 16:00 at Mt. SAC.

And Schiro ran that time when the surface of the trail was covered in rocks, which makes her record all the more impressive. I don't think Cain is a dominating xc runner, and I still don't get why she didn't compete for her high school this season. She certainly would have gotten competition on a national level, and perhaps even on a state level.

yoder-begley fan wrote:

I don't think Cain is a dominating xc runner, and I still don't get why she didn't compete for her high school this season. She certainly would have gotten competition on a national level, and perhaps even on a state level.

i think it comes down to this - if Alberto Salazar called and said he would like to coach your daughter what do you do? Say no thanks?

cain is one of the top juniors in the world - she isn't the greatest at XC, but in a month indoor starts and she won't have much competition in track.

So she gave up a few high school xc races, but she will probably run NXN and compete against the best anyway.

but turning down Alberto Salazar? Really?

The Course (VCP) had major repairs done to it in 1979 so it was still in pretty good shape in 1984. When I ran on it it in 1974-1978, it was like running over tree roots, holes and rocks. I would think it was in decent shape in 1984.

This is no doubt a great race, but she ran it with boys and others to push her! Top HS girls typically have to run alone. Running with other people really helped her run fast.

Im sure someone who ran on it in the 60s would say that it was like running over whole trees,boulders and sinkholes the size of compact cars lol. Im just messing with you but i think it is defintely faster now that the crushed gravel is down. Unless it got worse when we saw it in the mid 90s before the put in the path.

That cathy schiro run is still out of this world. Everyone is talking about mary cain like she is the next coming of slaney and schiro was 200m ahead of her. Unreal.

xcfan123 wrote:

This is no doubt a great race, but she ran it with boys and others to push her! Top HS girls typically have to run alone. Running with other people really helped her run fast.

Maybe. Maybe not. Some people don't need others in the race to run their fastest. Some people even run slower when others are in the race. So I see no reason to add a "but" to the performance. No one was tugging her along with a rope.

hannsen wrote:

Everyone is talking about mary cain like she is the next coming of slaney .

She isn't the next Mary Decker (Slaney). She is faster.

4:11.01

Just turned 16 years old

Salazar is now coaching her

4:04-4:05 this year. 3:59-4:01 her senior year.

She'll also get sub 2 in the 800 this year. 1:59.80

If she can get in one good 3000 race she'll go 9:05-9:09.

By the time she graduates I look for her to have the 800-1500 and 3000 HS records.

No other HS athlete holds that many records.

given Alberto's understanding that Cain might be the future, I don't think he cares about her getting all the HS records. He has a long term plan for her and since she'll be running in mixed and open races I don't know if her times will count for HS records assuming she sets some.

cainisthefuture wrote:

4:11.01

Just turned 16 years old

Salazar is now coaching her

4:04-4:05 this year. 3:59-4:01 her senior year.

She'll also get sub 2 in the 800 this year. 1:59.80

If she can get in one good 3000 race she'll go 9:05-9:09.

By the time she graduates I look for her to have the 800-1500 and 3000 HS records.

No other HS athlete holds that many records.

Wait, wait.

Let me get this straight.

She ran, what, 4:17 last year? Something like that?

She proceeds to drop 6 seconds in one year.

And you think she'll drop MORE time this year? And an equal amount the next?

You really think improvement happens that linearly? Regardless of the increased difficulty of improving the faster you get?

Fool.

She may be the future. But she will not sniff 3:59 in high school.

coach wrote:

given Alberto's understanding that Cain might be the future

As the Cain family steers directly into the waves of weirdness, LetsRun will be there to follow the journey.

Tough to say how Cain will progress, but here is a look at another 800/1500 high school kid, Jessica Judd, and her progression from the age of fourteen through seventeen, in reverse order:

800: 2:00.96 2:02.70 2:05.58 2:07.26

1500: 4:09.93 4:14.21 4:17.44 4:21.03

It should be noted that Judd's 800 (2:00.96) and 1500 (4:09.93) this year were run at the World Juniors in Barcelona. That means four races in 7-8 days if one includes the semis.

Judd and Cain could meet in 2014 at the World Juniors in Eugene. Judd has already said she is looking forward to this meet.

kids tend to plateau for a while, and that is normal. Of course if that happens then AlSal is just a bad coach, right?.

Interesting to see if she progresses like Mary D. (not sure she has that speed potential for a 1.56, but time only will tell the story) - remember she was also chasing the HS boys in workouts last year, so the intensity was there, it's not like she did her training solo - so plateauing a bit this year, in advance of 2014 might actually be a good thing. It's not like 4.11 is slow by any means anyway. But sh*t happens too - Mary D. developed compartment syndrome at that age (after her 2.02 800m)and then didn't really get going again for a number of years. These days she would have been a washed-up has-been at 17yo hounded by LR into an early permanent retirement!!

Alberto might have some vitamins that could help things along, and I'm sure Daddy Cain would do anything to keep his little star on the upswing.

Still think that this may end poorly for all involved.

[/quote] She is head and shoulders above all hs girls talent wise. Whether that dominance extends to xc or how serious she is about xc is unknown. She may be just cooling her heels and trying out Salazars tactics, waiting for spring.[/quote]

If the parents are smart, they will discontinue this Salazar experiment and let her continue to develop her academics as a priority, now and into the top college she no doubt can achieve admission to.

At the end of the day, she is one ankle, knee or hip injury away from a counter job at McDonalds if she doesn't develop her academic side.

anyone know how she did at NXN today?

Cain won the NXN race 17:43 by 12 seconds. Rocha won FL Northeast at VCP in 17:50, a full 24 seconds slower than Cain ran the same course a week earlier. But Rocha was all alone, so who knows. But it looks like Cain is materially faster than Rocha. This Footlocker vs NXN thing is seriously stupid.

nycer 8 wrote:

anyone know how she did at NXN today?

R U Kidding? wrote:

If the parents are smart, they will discontinue this Salazar experiment and let her continue to develop her academics as a priority, now and into the top college she no doubt can achieve admission to.

At the end of the day, she is one ankle, knee or hip injury away from a counter job at McDonalds if she doesn't develop her academic side.

So Salazar will fail with Cain where he succeeded with Rupp, i.e. produced the best uninjured progression in an athlete in coaching history? I think that the Cains had this foremost in mind when considering the options.