We make 250,000/year. I'm not a f***ing billionaire

Income inequality between the average government paycheck and the average private sector paycheck has also increased. Wanna take a guess which way that's going?

"You are either intentionally skewing my argument or you have a reading disability. I was saying that if the other poster thinks that "only if we had a more regressive tax code that people might not want to be poor anymore" - then he doesn't understand what it's like to be poor.

Nobody wants to be poor - regardless of the tax situation.

I did not say that just because poor people want to be rich that they should be rich.

I love your data rich post talking about 50% of Americans as moochers. Stop taking numbers from the sky and deal with reality. The number of people on long-term welfare is less than 1%. Almost all people are more happy when they are in a career that they enjoy - the reason that some people underachieve in life is more related to their lack of opportunities and access to people who show them how to be successful in life than just "being lazy".

Conservatives picture 50% of America sitting at home watching TV - waiting to receive their check from the government - that's just not reality. And this view is hurting our country because it devalues the importance of investment in education, infrastructure, and science as being integral to our economic development.

You better understand that China invests deeply in all these areas - and if we don't want to be left behind then we need to do away with this stupid and false image of all government money going to some slovish minority drifter whom you hate.[/quote]

1)your assertion is that poor people are not poor because of a lack of motivation. I disagree.

2)"Stop taking numbers from the sky and deal with reality." Well, According to research to be presented Monday at the Grad Nation summit in Washington. The event was organized by the children's advocacy group America's Promise Alliance founded by former Secretary of State Colin Powell. The graduation rate was 75 percent in 2009, meaning 1 in 4 students fails to get a diploma

3)The reason that some people underachieve in life is more related to their lack of opportunities and access to people who show them how to be successful in life than just "being lazy". If is plain as f-ing day that a with only a few exceptions you need to graduate from high school at a minimum to be "successful" in life. 25% of the country does not do that. Im sorry, they choose a different life and thats their perogative, but stop making excuses for them.

4)Of course you call me a racist when I made no mention of race in my post. Blow me sir.

Neb,

When will you stop making excuses for other adults irresponsibility and bad behvior?

You dont want to graduate from high school fine. But dont blame it on me when you are poor.

You want to get pregnant out of wedlock 5 times before the age of 20? Fine. why should i pay for it?

You want to eat like a fat pig? Fine. dont ask me to pay for your healthcare.

Lastly, dont tell me that adults dont know that eating unhealthy, not getting a high school degree and getting pregnant out of wedlock is bad for you.

Until we tell people that they are responsible for their actions, just like we tell every 5 year old, then you will continue to see slumping graduation rates and underachievement.

China and asia in general has a culture of "you are what you make of your self and thus they have amazing academic success, rates of financial savings and low crime rates.

I was responding to the claim that government taxation is theft. I don't know what argument you think I was making. I didn't say anything about spending.

brownsmith76 wrote:

nobody is saying all firefighters and policeman and schoolteachers should be fired.

nobody is saying that your house should burn down in case of an emergency.

strawman argument.

i want wasteful spending and wars to stop.

erwqwerqw wrote:

According to research to be presented Monday at the Grad Nation summit in Washington. The event was organized by the children's advocacy group America's Promise Alliance founded by former Secretary of State Colin Powell. The graduation rate was 75 percent in 2009, meaning 1 in 4 students fails to get a diploma

My great-grandfather quit school at the age of 13 because his father - the only bread winner in the family - was killed in an accident. He went on to be a successful businessman and among other things owned a taxi cab company. That was a long time ago - but sometimes people opt out of school for other reasons other than just being lazy. And even if they do it doesn't mean that they won't get their crap together later in life and become successful.

The other issue with your overall argument is that you don't seem to understand motivation. From a psychological stand point motivation is contains many factors. In order to believe that your efforts will be rewarded you have to see examples of that in your immediate surroundings.

In poor areas (regardless of race - try going to WV sometime) you see a lack of motivation - but that motivation is because they don't see how their efforts will actually lead to a better life. Success begets success and failure begets failure. If we want a strong America we need to help these folks see the light - not demonize them for having the poor fortune to be born into a crappy situation.

erwqwerqw wrote:

4)Of course you call me a racist when I made no mention of race in my post. Blow me sir.

Be honest - when you focus on how much you hate people who mooch off the goverment - what skin color do they have?

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

exposed wrote:

Apparently you pulled these quotes (or got them in an email)without actually reading the context in which they were written.

Enlighten yourself and read them in context.

Um, no e-mail, I am not a right winger, therefore I don't rely on chain e-mails full of lies when I am looking for "answers."

The "context" argument, huh? How about this: pick a quote, find the exact context, reprint that context for us, and show me how the words in the quote don't mean what they appear to say.

How about YOU do that and get back to me. Go fetch.

exposed wrote:

How about YOU do that and get back to me. Go fetch.

Do you even know the context of any of these quotes? Or do you just assume that because they don't match your views that they must be "out of context."

My great-grandfather quit school at the age of 13 because his father - the only bread winner in the family - was killed in an accident. He went on to be a successful businessman and among other things owned a taxi cab company. That was a long time ago - but sometimes people opt out of school for other reasons other than just being lazy. And even if they do it doesn't mean that they won't get their crap together later in life and become successful.

The other issue with your overall argument is that you don't seem to understand motivation. From a psychological stand point motivation is contains many factors. In order to believe that your efforts will be rewarded you have to see examples of that in your immediate surroundings.

In poor areas (regardless of race - try going to WV sometime) you see a lack of motivation - but that motivation is because they don't see how their efforts will actually lead to a better life. Success begets success and failure begets failure. If we want a strong America we need to help these folks see the light - not demonize them for having the poor fortune to be born into a crappy situation.[/quote]

1) Your great-grandfather is an except to a rule and you know it. And might I add lived in a far different time.

2)"In order to believe that your efforts will be rewarded you have to see examples of that in your immediate surroundings."

That's bull. I know dozens, literally dozens of people who came from the other side of the world with nothing to pursue an education in America with only a rudimentary knowledge of the english language and have made themselves highly successful. Here is a stat from the Bill and Melinda gates foundation: 69 percent of kids who drop out of school admit they "were not motivated to work hard; 66 percent would have worked harder if more had been demanded of them."

They even admit it is laziness!!!!

3)I think its disgusting you think Im racist just because of my beliefs. You sir are the one who is narrow minded.

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

" CEO pay spiked 725 percent between 1978 and 2011, while worker pay rose just 5.7 percent

target the ceo's then. they're like modern dukes and governors of lands.

why nickel and dime ppl who make an honest living, have unique skills, or simply were lucky. let them have their success and opportunity.

also wasteful spending.

69 percent of kids who drop out of school admit they "were not motivated to work hard; 66 percent would have worked harder if more had been demanded of them."

Why the hell should I spend the rest of my life paying for more stuff for people who admit they were too lazy to graduate high school.

High school is a complete joke. Give me a break. These are the oppressed, downtrodden, those screwed over by the system???

I dont think so. They had a chance at a free education and they said they simply didnt want to work.

erwqwerqw wrote:

69 percent of kids who drop out of school admit they "were not motivated to work hard; 66 percent would have worked harder if more had been demanded of them."

Why the hell should I spend the rest of my life paying for more stuff for people who admit they were too lazy to graduate high school.

High school is a complete joke. Give me a break. These are the oppressed, downtrodden, those screwed over by the system???

I dont think so. They had a chance at a free education and they said they simply didnt want to work.

A. It's not a free education.

B. The amount you are paying for the freeloaders is minuscule.

erwqwerqw wrote:

69 percent of kids who drop out of school admit they "were not motivated to work hard; 66 percent would have worked harder if more had been demanded of them."

Why the hell should I spend the rest of my life paying for more stuff for people who admit they were too lazy to graduate high school.

"Motivated" and "lazy" are very different things. Lazy has the connotation that they will never amount to anything.

Here are some other numbers from that survey:

How do dropouts feel about their decision?

•81 percent said they now believe graduating from high school is important to success in life.

•74 percent said if they were able to relive the experience, they would have stayed in school.

•47 percent agreed it was hard to find a good job without a diploma.

What might have kept dropouts in school?

•81 percent called for more "real-world" learning opportunities.

•75 percent wanted smaller classes with more individual instruction.

Does that sound like people who are destined to forever live as moochers off the state? Or does it sound like people who made some mistakes when they were young and are looking for a way to move forward with their lives?

Nobody is saying that government should just write them a check every month for the rest of their lives. But we should give them training opportunities - so that we have a more educated workforce.

Have you ever been to an inner-city school? Do you know anything about how difficult it would be to pay attention to classes when you're worried about your safety either at school or at home?

We are failing these kids. We could spend a little bit more now - so that we spend a lot less later to imprison these kids. If you spent anytime with these kids - you'd realize that many of them are smart - the problem is that they don't have the faith that their lives are destined for anything worthwhile - so, they just throw it all away.

Watch the 4th season of The Wire - and then tell me that the biggest problem in this country is that we spend too much money on poor people.

"Lazy has the connotation that they will never amount to anything."

-No it doesnt necessarily.

"Tell me that the biggest problem in this country is that we spend too much money on poor people."

-I never said this or inferred it.

"Or does it sound like people who made some mistakes when they were young and are looking for a way to move forward with their lives?"

-Roughly 30%of white dropouts go on to earn a GED, 20% of black dropouts and 10% of Latino dropouts.If they really wanted to go back and receive more training they would at least get their GED.

"We are failing these kids."

-No we arent. They are failing themselves as they admit.

"Have you ever been to an inner-city school? Do you know anything about how difficult it would be to pay attention to classes when you're worried about your safety."

-Note none of the respondents dropped out of school because they didnt feel safe. On that note, who is making these kids feel unsafe when it does occur? Other kids who's heads are completely up their rear ends and who will grow up to be adults who's heads are completely up their rear ends.

"But we should give them training opportunities - so that we have a more educated workforce."

-There is tons of training available. They should seek it out and pay for it. My family members borrowed obscene amounts of money to pay for our educations. Dont tell me Joe Blow down the street cant get need based scholarships and take out guaranteed federal loans to pay for his education. What

I think it's unfair that some people are born with superior genetics and that some work really hard every day to become better runners.

Therefore I'd like to propose that all races from now on be handicapped. That way we can all feel better about ourselves, even if we choose not to put in the work or are born with fat parents. Fair is fair. Spread the medals and prize money around a bit.

This may not be true for you, but it seems that most people who oppose higher tax rates who I have spoken to oppose them because it doesn't seem fair that their hard earned money is taken and given to someone who did not earn it. They seem less concerned about things like military spending or other waste as they are concerned about welfare and universal healthcare. To me it seems that those issues are based on the idea that some people who work hard deserve more than other people who work hard. And at the heart of it all is the idea that we must work harder to get more wealth to get more stuff. So then it seems a bit unfair to me that the CEO of a company can make a ridiculous amount of money and yet the full-time lowest level employees can be on food stamps if they have a family. Both people work, both aspire to gain more wealth, but the CEO feels justified in having indignation at giving some of their earned wealth to another who does not earn as much.

About 12-13% of the budget goes to safety net/welfare type expenses. Suppose though that there was a lesser gap in wage discrepancy that those in charge were willing to take less pay in order to pay the lower employees more, suppose that those who did not make as much did not believe that it was necessary to spend what little they had on cable, new nikes, and ipads. I bet that it would not be hard to cut safety net spending in half simply because of some contentment.

I think that where we likely disagree is on the definition of a low standard of living. Compared to most of the world, anyone in the US has a high standard of living. Compared to most of the US's history, we have a high standard of living. I am not advocating a low standard of living, but rather a lessening of wealth disparity and a check for the lust for the newest, biggest, most expensive items.

lets cut the bs here. You may not be considered rich on 250,000 a year, but you are very "well-off". You bought 1 car for each of your 3 kids? that's your choice to do that, it's not a necessary purchase. You act like you're entitled to every middle class luxury in the book. You're not. You made the choice to buy 5 cars, that takes away from your vacation funds. That's a choice that you made. You sound like a spoiled child. Learn some basic money management skills. If you're stuggling to save for retirement on 250,000 a year, then you're the problem, not Obama's tax plan.I'd much rather tax you than cut programs that help single mothers who live off food stamps. If that's a huge problem for you, then sell one of your toyotas.

2 things to adresse here:

1) I did not buy three cars for the kids. 1 kid bought his own, and 1 got a hand-me down '98 camry (which they still drive). I did buy the other a 2002 corolla. So I've bought 1 car, not 3. Big difference.

Additionally, to those stating that "ceo pay has gone up X amount of times compared to the average workers pay the past 30 years..."

there is something important to note here, and that is the technological revolution. technologie has made COUNTLESS people millionaires and many, many billionaires. So the reason for increased ceo pay has a lot less to do with some kind of great conspiracy of the rich, it is more just the fact that the technological era has changed everything. Technologie has completely changed the game---people in their 20s and 30s can go from no names to having millions of dollars in just a matter of months. You no longer have to have real capital to even start a business--just a computer and an idea.

'not getting a high school degree '

If they all had high school degrees one of them would be doing your job