Lasse Viren's training?

Does anyone actually have anymore details of Viran's training rather then more drug talk? I think we have had enough of the later in here lately.

I can sympathize with your impatience regarding the drug talk but if the guy was dirty, what good would his training log do you anyway unless you plan to also duplicate his doping regimen?

The story I've heard is that the guy never did anything except in an Olympic year so any long term training regimen probably doesn't exist. He apparently was a pretty mediocre runner during his non-doping periods (non-Olympic years). What he did accomplish in running was due to his practice of reinfusing stored blood into his body prior to races. (I don't think they had EPO in those days.) Now, I wasn't there. I didn't see it. I have no first hand knowledge but I put it in the category of common sense. For instance, do you really need a positive drug test on a 44 year old woman (Merlene Ottey) running an 11.18 100 meter to know that she's dirty?

Blood doping alone isn't going to make you a gold medalist, just in case you didn't know. I didn't say I was going to copy his training, but I would like to see what he did and it's much better then hear people go on and on about drugs and have yet another stupid debate on here.

The level of ignorance displayed in this long quote from OBN is stunning,

"1. If a runner's slow twitch muscle fibers actually do deplete, then how in the hell does he (or she) run as fast as he does at the end of a long run? There is no way that his fast twitch muscle fibers will be able to make up for his exhausted slow twitch fibers, and his slow twitch fibers aren't going to be able to burn fat fast enough to make up for the lack of glycogen.

2. A really long run is typically done only once a week, and if glycogen depletion actually did happen(?), it would be experienced for only the last few miles. It is hard to figure how a few miles a week would be a significant enough stimulus for aerobic development.

A much better approach for aerobically conditioning the muscle fibers that are used to run at say for example, 10k pace, IS TO DO INTERVAL TRAINING AT 10K PACE!"

At least later he writes, "I'm trying to still figure the above out..."

Well, at least he got that right.

Who cares if he doped, he was still a great runner and ran very fast. He trained hard, and his races showed this fact. Sad but true fact is that all the dopeing in the world will not do much of anything if you do not train hard.

Viren ran 13:55 already at age 20, 3 years before the 72 Olympics. Plenty of time to improve, doping or no doping. He achieved that PR with only an annual volume of 2,927km. Plenty of room to up the mileage and intensity as well! In 3 years he cut 29s off.

"The story I've heard is that the guy never did anything except in an Olympic year"

The story you heard. That says it all.

I think Viren's success factors were:

- Amazing consistency. Rolf Haikkola planned Virens training extremely well. Viren didn't take shortcuts. He ran every training session. With some hard sessions Haikkola was there to make sure the workout is as lung searing as it's supposed to be. Haikkola's tongue-in-cheek nick name in the running circles was "raaka-Rolle", or "brutal Rolle" (Rolle comes from Rolf).

- Right from the beginning Haikkola and Viren agreed there is only one goal. No compromises.

- Viren's life was focused on running. He was free to go on training camps all over the world despite his job. He also had a small athlete's scholarship.

- Cooperation of Haikkola and Viren in developing the race strategies. They weren't afraid of trying new things in races of lesser important (other than Olympics, that is). In the Olympics Viren was ready. He knew exactly what he was capable of. He also knew pretty well his competition.

- More intense training than others' who did big mileage. It was just within limits so Viren stayed relatively healthy all the time.

If you get a cory of Mike Sandrock's "Running With the Legends" there's a sample of a week's training. It listed three sessions a day for the most part. The longest run was 25km. There was a second "long" one of 22km. The other runs tender to be 12-15km. Lots of them were very easy. There was a 15km (I believe) done with a HR max of 87.

The hardest session, in my opinion, was an 8x600 hill session. Most days had lots of easy running with a bit of something harder. I'll try and dig it out later and post more.

As to the years between Olympics, as indicated, he usde them to prepare for the Olympics. I raced against him four times in 1975 and he was incredibly mediocre. I discussed that with several people who knew him and they assured me that he would be repeating his gold medal performances the following year. He was, they told me, just doing easy distance work. Those mediocre races were part of his training, and his income, I'd wager, but were really just

time trials.

I have Running With The Legends and I have read it. Just when people start threads about Lasse Virans training someone can mention the blood doping because according to some that was part of his training, but the thread doesn't have to turn into JUST that. Sad how much everyone focuses on the negative in this world, instead of talking about the positive things. Try watching your evening news with that in mind sometime. That's why I don't watch that crap.

Yes, my level of ignorance is stunning, because even though I know a lot, there is still a lot I'm ignorant about. There's a lot to know.

Can you give a precise explanation as to why my quote (I didn't quote anybody) is ignorant?

[quote]Shocked and stunned wrote:

The level of ignorance displayed in this long quote from OBN is stunning,

Here it is boys and girls-

you want to run 4min mile you have to train your body to run slightly below 60sec pace for 4 mins straight. 2:11 in the Marathon you have to train the body to run at 5min mile pace for 2hr 11mins it ain't rocket science.

Goal or bench mark workout for that mile would be something like 800m in 1:58 45sec recovery- 4 x 400m in 59 w/1min rec- 800m in 1:58. Should be able to do something like this with not alot of stress involved.

Benchmark for the Marathon 30 mins at moderate effort ending at a track or measured road route, then right into 6 by 5KM in 15:30-15:35 knocking them off like clock work with 4min recovery jogs covering 1200m or 3/4 of a mile during them recovery.

Read the article in running times, very detailed. also during this period he was not training for the Olympic marathon (read earlier posts) - that came in '76. The magazine deals with the first olympics.

Which issue has the article?

albqwerk wrote:

Read the article in running times, very detailed. also during this period he was not training for the Olympic marathon (read earlier posts) - that came in '76. The magazine deals with the first olympics.

current - September.

ha! what does my screen name have to do with anything? and yes, i am american, though nationalized after marrying an american woman. can a former brit be a redneck? the thought really gives me a chuckle. i stand by my stance that finns are cheats. i saw it with my own eyes. you are certainly correct that viren was talented, though look at his results between his olympic wins. hardly anything exceptionally impressive! he had a bad habit of crowding you as well, by the way.

Miles and Miles wrote:

Does anyone actually have anymore details of Viran's training rather then more drug talk? I think we have had enough of the later in here lately.

Chad, since you insist on leaving your website on your posts why don't you explain to the board who Mark Hughes was and what happened to him.

Didn't Viren have a ton of surgeries to repair, the massive injuries her incurred from such high mileage?

I heard since he was on such a comprehensive government funded program, he could afford many such surgies. i.e. knee damage etc.

Doesn't Lydiard himself have two replacement knee caps?

I think Viren did have surgery. I'm not sure if it was overuse or external trauma though. I think the latter. I should reread the new book.

Health care is not a big challenge in Finland. It's not a matter of affording surgeries. You have a problem, you get it fixed.

Lydiard has knee challenges. It is said to not be running related.

vutar:

>Doesn't Lydiard himself have two replacement knee caps?<

Lydiard injured his knees working construction & he is 80+ years old!

Thank you. Is Bob Kennedy on the cover?

albqwerk wrote:

current - September.