John Kellogg Training; any followers?

Kellogg is basically Lydiard + modern exercise physiology + a little bit of Zen and the Art. My own training was pretty heavily influenced by Kellogg when I was in good shape in college. Mileage was high, between 80-120 miles a week depending on the time of year. A typical late summer week for me looked like this:

M- AM: 8mi long tempo at aerobic threshold / "marathon" pace PM: 5mi easy

T- 10mi easy / 4mi easy + drills, strides

W- 15mi easy / 6mi easy

T- 10mie easy / 4mi easy + drills, strides

F- AM: 5mi easy PM: 9mi progression run (starting ultra-slow, ending with the last mile at or even below anaerobic threshold)

S-16-17mi easy on trails

S-7mi easy / 6mi easy

My own training was a bit different than what Kellogg prescribes, as I didn't include short tempo runs at the anaerobic threshold (20-25min long) at all, and I only incorporated "cruise intervals" (long repeats at anaerobic threshold with short recovery) once I approached the racing season. But by and large it's pretty similar: high volume, low intensity on non-workout days, and a focus on high end aerobic development (and an intentional avoidance of "hard" workouts).

A few peculiarities that you'll notice between Kellogg's training and Daniels or Lydiard is that Kellogg will sometimes prescribe a workout consisting of 2-3 sets of strides, plus a 4-7min "time trial" at 90% effort once a week or so in place of a regular easy run. Kellogg is also completely opposed to strength training (he and Lydiard are in the same boat here), a point I disagree with today.

I've done a lot of research on Kellogg's ideas and training. In a follow-up post below, I will post sample training weeks from Weldon Johnson and Erick Hawkins, both coached by John Kellogg.

You can read more (a LOT more) about John Kellogg's training philosophy on my blog, where I've published a ~300 page collection of his writings that I have been able to find.

http://runningwritings.blogspot.com/2012/04/updated-training-wisdom-of-john-kellogg.html

There is also a "hypothetical" training schedule in the big .pdf on my blog; you can find that starting on page 48.

Here are some sample training weeks for runners who were actually coached by John Kellogg:

Again, you can find all of this and more in the pdf linked on my blog, posted above.

Who would've thought, some actual running writing. Like.

What do you mean by Kellogg zen?

Mr Crane wrote:

Who would've thought, some actual running writing. Like.

What do you mean by Kellogg zen?

This kinda stuff:

Learning to go fast, not hard; learning what threshold FEELS like, internalizing these things, etc etc. All very anti-physiology, ironically.

Wow. Nice thread and good info. Thanks northern star!!

What made you change your views on weight training?

This is good stuff:

"Wasting bandwidth - a general career training outline

Here are the fundamentals of our training approach. We use this same basic outline throughout an ENTIRE CAREER from about age 15 forward, with mileages steadily increasing toward the maximum as a runner demonstrates the ability to tolerate the load and benefit from it (this is BASIC training). We aim for two peaks per year. This policy is more conducive to long term development than is trying to peak three times in a year, as is often done in college (and sometimes in high school). We don't ALWAYS follow a 7-day pattern, either, but since most runners are often constrained by external demands (school, etc.), it's useful to acquire the ability to function well within a 7-day schedule. This is used for ALL track events from 1,500m through 10,000m, with adjustments made along the way as a runner shows a tendency to improve from a particular balance of workout types (this is the ART of training). Just as Lydiard's elite runners trained on the same basic plan until it was the time of the year for them to move toward their specialties, the aim of EVERY runner who races at middle and long distances should be to acquire a high level of aerobic fitness and to handle steadily increasing training loads (read: mileage).

We set the paces for timed workouts based on recent time trials or races (also depends on if there is an important race within a few days or whether the week's mileage is planned as high or low, etc.). In any case, we'll almost ALWAYS start SLOWER than the intended average and work into a speed which keeps lactate levels under complete control until the final 2-3 minutes of running. The PACE may be FASTER than the "laboratory GXT definition" of LT pace as "approximately one hour race pace", but the lactate levels THEMSELVES are what we are concerned with, NOT necessarily the PACE. For example, a runner who is in CURRENT shape for a 15:00 for 5,000m may have a theoretical LT pace of 5:15-5:20 per mile and might on one day perform 10 x 3 min. on/30-60 secs. off (so-called "high density") at an average of 5:15 mile pace for the 3 min. runs. Then on a DIFFERENT threshold workout, the same runner might do 3 x 8 min. on/5 min. off (lower density) at an average pace of 4:55 per mile (covering roughly 6.5 laps in each 8 min. bout if done on a track). Or the workout might consist of 20 x 400 in around 75, with 20-25 secs. rest periods - another high density session but run at a different pace than the first high density session. The point is to work at VARIOUS speeds but to stay on the comfortable side of tying up, only feeling like you're really "ripping it" during the last 2-3 minutes of the entire workout - and even THEN not rigging, but getting a "fast flying" feeling - working but not straining. You must train your body to operate under CONTROL while recruiting different muscle fibers, with various ranges of motion, and at different power outputs, thereby stimulating some systems while recovering others. High density repeats use predominantly slow twitch fibers and can be repeated fairly often in lieu of continuous runs. Lower density repeats allow you to spend significant time at or below your LT while running FASTER and are complementary to the high density sessions.

4-8 WEEKS EARLY PRESEASON:

This phase is loosely structured, with the emphasis on rebuilding mileage and on running by feel while covering some of the necessary bases.

2-4 days per week - Progression runs (no pace parameters yet - start slow, gradually and spontaneously increase speed to the high end of aerobic effort and stay there from 30-65 min., with a faster finish if feeling strong)

1-2 days per week - Sets of buildups or strides (ex.: 2-3 sets of 5-6 x 15-40 secs., jogging equal distance between reps and jogging 5-10 min. between sets - always do buildups, strides, and drills WITH the wind, if any) + drills and/or hills on occasion + 2-8 min. @ 90% effort (following last set of strides) every 2 weeks

1 day every 2 weeks - Long easy run (getting longer each time, last 1-3 miles gradually faster if feeling good)

Phase in doubles 1-2 times per week for 2 weeks, 3-4 times per week for 2 weeks, 4-6 times per week after that

4 WEEKS LATE PRESEASON:

Here we get more structured toward Mondays and Wednesdays being faster days and Saturdays being long run days (schedule shifted if needed based on whenever the long run is most convenient). The basic outline below totals 65-80 miles for a week at MINIMUM (depending on average training pace) and totals 125-150 miles at MAXIMUM (depending on pace).

Sun. A.M. 0-35 min. very easy ("shake-out" or "super-O2" pace) / P.M. 30-95 min. easy (normal comfortable pace)

Mon. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. Progression run (spending 30-65 min. at a high end of aerobic effort) OR Tempo run with 20-25 min at LT effort OR High Density LT repeats (ex.: 8-15 x 3-4 min with 30-60 secs. rest periods)

Tue. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. 35-95 min. easy

Wed. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. Progression run (spending 30-65 min. at a high end of aerobic effort) OR High Density LT repeats (ex.: 15-25 x 60-90 secs. with 20-25 secs. rest periods) OR Sets of strides OR Lower Density short LT repeats (ex.: 12-20 x 45-90 secs. at roughly current controlled 3,000m Time Trial pace with nearly equal rest-to-run ratios)

Thu. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. 35-95 min. easy

Fri. A.M. 0-35 min. very easy / P.M. 35-65 min. easy with 4-10 strides near the end

Sat. 125-155 min. easy with last 10-20 min. gradually faster if feeling good OR 95-125 min. with last 30-60 min. picked up to a strong high-end pace OR A.M. 30-35 min. very easy / P.M. Long warmup (25-35 min.), CONTROLLED (deliberately slow start) Time Trial of 3,000m-8,000m - designed to determine critical training speeds and make adjustments (60-65 min. total)

4 WEEKS EARLY COMPETITIVE SEASON (assuming Saturday RACE):

From this point on, runners who specialize at 1,500m will gradually gravitate toward the lower (or moderate) outlined mileage levels and will place slightly less emphasis on threshold work, favoring repeats more often than continuous runs and moving toward Lactate Tolerance training slightly sooner than the longer distance runners. Races during the early season are usually overdistance for 1,500m-3,000m runners, underdistance for 5,000m-10,000 runners (unless a time is needed as a qualifier).

Sun. A.M. 0-35 min. very easy / P.M. 30-95 min. easy (normal comfortable pace)

Mon. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. Progression run (spending 30-65 min. at a high end of aerobic effort) OR Tempo run with 20-30 min at LT effort OR High Density LT repeats (ex.: 8-15 x 3-4 min with 30-60 secs. rest periods or 15-25 x 60-90 secs. with 20-25 secs. rest periods) OR Sets of strides (if long RACE previous Saturday)

Tue. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. 35-95 min. easy

Wed. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. Lower Density short LT repeats (ex.: 12-20 x 45-90 secs. at roughly current 5,000m race pace with nearly equal rest-to-run ratios) OR VO2max training (ex.: 6-8 x 2-3 min. at slightly slower than current 3,000m race pace)

Thu. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. 35-95 min. easy

Fri. A.M. 0-35 min. very easy / P.M. 35-65 min. easy with 4-10 strides near the end

Sat. 95-125 min. with last 30-60 min. picked up to a strong high-end pace OR (rarely) 125-155 min. easy with last 10-20 min. gradually faster if feeling good OR RACE of 3,000m-5,000m (10,000m only if needed for qualifier)

4 WEEKS MID-SEASON (assuming Saturday RACE):

The 1,500m runners still spend more time on the faster workouts than longer distance runners, occasionally staying in touch with their LT training. Races are usually underdistance or specialty distance for all runners (unless a time is needed as a qualifier).

Sun. A.M. 0-35 min. very easy / P.M. 30-95 min. easy (normal comfortable pace)

Mon. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. Sets of strides OR Tempo run with 20-30 min at LT effort OR High Density LT repeats (ex.: 8-15 x 3-4 min with 30-60 secs. rest periods or 15-25 x 60-90 secs. with 20-25 secs. rest periods) OR Lower Density long LT repeats (ex.: 4-5 x 4-5 min. at roughly current 5,000m race pace with 3-4 min. rest periods or 3 x 8 min. at roughly 10 secs./mile slower than current 5,000m race pace with 3-5 min. rest periods)

Tue. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. 35-95 min. easy

Wed. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. Lower Density short LT repeats (ex.: 12-20 x 45-90 secs. at roughly current 5,000m race pace with nearly equal rest-to-run ratios) OR VO2max training (ex.: 6-10 x 2-3 min. at slightly slower than current 3,000m race pace with equal rest-to-run ratios) OR Creatine Phosphate training (ex.: 2 sets of 2-3 x 7-10 secs. @ 98%-100% effort with 60 secs. walk between each and 8 min. walk between sets) OR Lactate Tolerance training (ex.: 8-10 x 45-65 secs. at slightly faster than current 1,500m/mile race pace with rest periods of about 1.5 times the run periods) OR Lactate Clearance training (ex.: 2-3 x 30-40 secs. at 95%-100% effort with 3-4 min. rest periods)

Thu. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. 35-95 min. easy

Fri. A.M. 0-35 min. very easy / P.M. 35-65 min. easy with 4-10 strides near the end

Sat. RACE of 800m-1,500m (1,500m-5,000m specialists) or 1,500m-5,000m (10,000m specialists) OR 95-125 min. with last 10-20 min. gradually faster if feeling good

4 WEEKS LATE SEASON (assuming Saturday RACE):

Time to peak out. Lactate Clearance training is often done by all runners during this stage (if there are not too many races scheduled during the season), but only if regular speed maintenance (buildups and strides) and some Creatine Phosphate training has been used first.

Sun. A.M. 0-35 min. very easy / P.M. 30-65 min. easy (normal comfortable pace)

Mon. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. Sets of strides OR High Density LT repeats (ex.: 3-4 min. reps with 30-60 secs. rest periods) OR Creatine Phosphate training (ex.: 3-4 x 20 secs. @ 98%-100% effort with 60 secs. walk between each)

Tue. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. 35-65 min. easy

Wed. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. VO2max training (ex.: 6-10 x 2-3 min. at slightly slower than current 3,000m race pace with equal rest-to-run ratios or 12-15 x 1 min. at slightly faster than current 3,000m race pace with nearly equal rest-to-run ratios) OR Lactate Tolerance training (ex.: 8-10 x 45-65 secs. at slightly faster than current 1,500m/mile race pace with rest periods of about 1.5 times the run periods) OR Lactate Clearance training (ex.: 2-3 x 1 min. at 95%-100% effort with 4-5 min. rest periods) OR Taper Session (ex.: 2 x 2 min. + 2 x 1 min. + 4 x 30 secs., each set of 2 having first rep medium speed and second rep fast with rest periods of about 1.5 times the previous run periods and the set of 4 all starting at medium speed and getting progressively faster)

Thu. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. 35-65 min. easy

Fri. A.M. 0-35 min. very easy / P.M. 35-65 min. easy with 4-10 strides near the end

Sat. RACE of 400m-1,500m (1,500m specialists) or 800m-5,000m (5,000m specialists) or 1,500m-10,000m (10,000m specialists) OR 95-125 min. with last 10-20 min. gradually faster if feeling good

Oh, yes, don't forget the most important criterion of all: LOVE running!

Great stuff! I love John Kellogg

Northern Star wrote:

This kinda stuff:

http://www.letsrun.com/2005/jkfitness.php

Wow. Just wow.

blaznbison24 wrote:

What made you change your views on weight training?

After a few years of putting in high mileage with a good bit of high-end aerobic running, I started to have injury troubles. Even though I could run huge mileage and maintain a fast pace for a long time, my hip muscles in particular were pathetically weak. This led to some hip and knee issues that caused a lot of problems in my training. As I later discovered when I looked in-depth at the causes of many common running injuries, muscular strength and endurance plays an important role in preventing (and treating) injuries. In addition to that, I found it hard to deny that virtually every elite runner in the world does some sort of strength training—even Renato Canova prescribes strength circuits for his Kenyan runners! Finally, when I re-introduced strength training after having been away from it for several years, I improved my race times and especially my finishing speed.

John Cook and Jay Johnson have some interesting ideas on the role of strength training: in addition to the direct benefits (i.e. more strength and explosive power) and indirect benefits (influences on hormonal levels—don't ask me for specifics on this, because I know very little about it!) of strength work, they also see it as a means to support additional training. Jay Johnson has a saying that goes something like "the more you do, the more you CAN do," meaning that better general strength ENABLES more mileage and injury-free running. I've also seen some research that indicates that muscular strength may be connected to bone strength as well.

Thanks to giancarlo, that's probably the most concise description of the nuts and bolts of Kellogg's training philosophy. It's buried somewhere in that 300-page pdf. Also, if you happen to come across a book called Run Strong by Kevin Beck, JK wrote a chapter for that which also explains his philosophy in a well-put-together package.

Thanks for all of your contributions J.R., to this and other threads. From what I have read, one of the attractive apsects of JK's training approach (or Lydiard's for that matter) is that the fundamental aspects appear quite simple to carry out. I am sure that strength training can be beneficial but the obstacle for many distance runners is that this training appears too complicated (perhaps due to a lack of understanding of the basic concepts) and too time consuming to perform on top of the running training. Furthermore, some of the strength training programs require access to gym equipment which is not always easily available. Did you manage to break things down into some sort of manageable system that you were able to carry out regularly?

Having looked at some of the writings by Brad Hudson and Canova, if a runner has a steep hill on their training routes it should be quite simple to do a few hill sprints once or twice a week as a starting point in strength training. Moving on from this to further strength training may be more difficult.

So basically high mileage and a little bit of this and that, just like ANY other reasonable training program.

It's interesting that people love to pounce on some program and endow it with mystical qualities that make it the best out there.

Meanwhile every person in the top ten at any given race could claim that exactly what they are doing is unique and special.

tempo runs stress fast twitch muscles

You are absolutely correct. Nothing special about what JK does. But most people are looking for a short cut. He shows no short cut will result in long term success. With distance running you must be able to build upon each season to get strong and run faster. You doing anything else and you will fail at achieving your best.

me

How would someone structure a JK training plan? What kind of workouts in the different parts of the season?

For the marathon I mean. Any specific workouts?

I am also curious about JK training for the marathon. In addition to specific workouts, what would a six month template look like? Would it focus on "big" workouts or something more spread-out; e.g., a weekly speed, threshold and long.

Northern Star - based on the information from your link, it doesn't appear to me that JK is completely opposed to strength training... at all. Rather, it appears to me that he felt that there is a time and place for it. HOWEVER, it should not be overemphasized as a means to an end.

We've learned through the decades that ALL of the muscle contractile properties needed for running can be developed with drills which involve body weight vs. gravity (or exaggerated motion), hill work, and (surprise) running. Barbells, dumbbells and machines are not needed except in special cases. Neither is upper body work. Those special cases are: 1.) Rehab following injury - This is pretty self-explanatory. If you can't support your own weight (due to injury or atrophy), you'll obviously need some other form of weightlifting (machines or free weights) in order to rehab. 2.) Injury prevention - I include this ONLY if you have an obvious structural weakness which causes chronic imbalance or discomfort or injury. In that case, you MAY need some progressive weight training (example: internal hip rotators). "Body weight vs. gravity" exercises (such as pushups, pullups, ab rollers, dips, toe raising/lowering, step-ups, etc.) are preferable to standard forms of weightlifting, since they