NAIA Vs.....?

Both the men's and women's races were slower than normal. The fields were strong though...stronger than the last few years, especially on the women's side. The course was pretty wet. It rained like crazy early in the week and apparently was a mud bog on Wednesday. The winds picked up and dried the surface by Saturday, but it was still sloppy in places...especially under the immediate surface. It was cold (upper 30's) but not cold enough to freeze and harden the ground. The wind was blowing pretty strong into everyones face going up the hill from the start to the mile...although it didn't have much effect once in the woods. First mile splits were very slow. Emilie Mondor ran as hard as she has ever run to get the record...and she has posted a 15:3? 5k this year. Anyone who knows anything about Kenosha knows the course can change in speed by at least 30 seconds either way in a day. In the end it's Cross Country and you can't compare times from different meets. The NAIA talent is at least equal to NCAA II and III...and Mondor is faster than any other collegiate runner in North America at any level.

The competition was tough? That was the weakest field in the last 15 years hands down. Ask any honest coach that was there. The talent pool was down. Think about the top 30 over the past 15 years. Go through this list and try, just try to compare this season. I ran 96-99 and watched this years as a coach.

1.

Silah Misoi, Life University (Ga.)

23:31

2.

Samuel Nyamongo, Life University (Ga.)

24:05

3.

Francis Kirwa, Life University (Ga.)

24:09

4.

Oliver Mintzlaff, Concordia University (Calif.)

24:12

5.

James Kennedy, Grace College (Ind.)

24:18

6.

John Ngure, Huntington College (Ind.)

24:19

7.

David Milne, University of British Columbia (Canada)

24:22

8.

Brandon Seifert, Concordia University (Neb.)

24:23

9.

Kenneth Koech, McKendree College (Ill.)

24:24

10.

Daniel Kibungei, Malone College (Ohio)

24:26

11.

Mike Farrell, McKendree College (Ill.)

24:44

12.

Chris Kebenei, McKendree College (Ill.)

24:46

13.

GeorgeOndimu, Life University (Ga.)

24:55

14.

Zak Merchoud, Life University (Ga.)

24:56

15.

Sean Birren, Lindenwood University (Mo.)

24:57

16.

Scott Stanley, Dana College (Neb.)

24:59

17.

Gabriel Rop, Taylor University (Ind.)

25:03

18.

Dave Leonard, Malone College (Ohio)

25:05

19.

Marcus Chandler, California State University-San Marcos

25:06

20.

Ricardo Etheridge, California Baptist University

25:07

21.

Joe Campagna, Houghton College (N.Y.)

25:08

22.

Ricardo Valenzuela, California Baptist University

25:09

23.

Natnael Amare, Northwood University (Texas)

25:10

24.

Patrick Rono, MidAmerica Nazarene University (Kan.)

25:11

25.

Brett Long, Oregon Institute of Technology

25:11

26.

Joe Beisner, Northwood University (Texas)

25:12

27.

Stuart Moran, Berea College (Ky.)

25:13

28.

Bashar Ibrahim, Lindenwood University (Mo.)

25:14

29.

Brad Tighe, Minot State University (N.D.)

25:14

30.

Luke Baker, Indiana Wesleyan University

25:19

hmmm...well "tough", wasn't there a women's race there too? Pay attention to the post...read something fully before you write a bunch of crap. And while you did spend a lot of time writing down all those men's names and times, it is still cross country and the courses change in speed from day to day. You can't compare times from any two years at Kenosha...the course is completely different every year...and from day to day for that matter. The women's race was tough with 19 returning all-americans and a ton of teams with most of their rosters returning.

blap ran 28:00 at kenosha...nice effort

yeah...good job. If you can't find something intelligent to say, or you can't stand up to the facts, just make something stupid up.

Blap,

well what did you run?

Why would that matter? Maybe I ran, maybe I didn't. Maybe I ran fast, slow or not at all? The answer has nothing to do with this subject or my ability to comment intelligently on the subject. Again, more B.S. because you can't write an intelligent response. I'm done trading barbs though. See ya.

By citing the best field in NAIA history (1999), you hope to discredit this year? You're an idiot. Keep in mind that the year you reference, Life beat Arkansas at home. That makes 2002 the weakest year ever?

Not likely. Regarding times, you have a 13:11 5ker that was third (and undefeated for '02) running 25:17. Forget about times, dufus, this is cross country.

Ask any honest coach and they will tell you that it was the closest team battle in 15 years... but does that make it weak? Just because the African-laden teams choked and the blue-collar northern schools ran solid?

Give me a break.

Remember this. Brad Tighe, who ran 13:50 last spring finished 10th with a 25:40 this year, while as a 15:00 5k runner in '99 finsihed 29th in 25:14.

Don't compare apples to oranges, man.

Times don't matter, but it shows how tough the NAIA course can be. Also, NAIA as a whole has gotten weaker over the last decade. The reason is quality running programs like Western and Adams State left NAIA for Div. II. Also Life University or Kenyan U. is pretty much done. Those schools ruled NAIA. Now that there gone it makes NAIA much more competitive for team titles but the quality is down, especially the depth. Makes it much more interesting though.

Also Brad Tighe was injured for part of the season, and would have done much better than 10th, so using him as an example is pointless.

Alright Demarco,

Yes, DII teams are good now (although Minot beat SD at Griak w Tighe and barely lost to SD w/o him later)

When quality programs like Western and Adams (although Adams ain't what they used to be... no arguement) left, other programs replaced then (ie Life, Cal Baptist, EO, Minot, Cumber, Cent Meth and Mid Am Naz)

You are still trying to compare new apples to old oranges.

Just either wait till track or look to last season.

NAIA's Boit won Drake; NAIA's Tighes both won Penn... what you talking about Willis? What's weaker? You've got a case of the good old days. Things are better all over for distance runners than they were a decade ago. And the Kenyan teams are still there. Just being beat, in NAIA, in NCAA and abroad.

yaya,

Why are you comparing Minot to South Dakota? I think you are saying how tough they (Minot) are, yet you are comparing them to the 16th ranked team in Division II. I think you settled the argument, Minot is probably a 10th ranked team (generous?) for Div. II even with the Tighe studs.

Like you mentioned above, they beat SD once and lost once. The SD you are referring to placed 16th at nationals for Div II. I hope you know that the SD Minot competed against was the University of South Dakota and not South Dakota State who finished fourth at nationals. SD STATE crushed USD all season.

The NAIA powerhouses of the past would be competitive in Div. I as far as a top 15 team. Some of the previous Adam State teams under Vigil beat teams like Wisconsin when they where ranked third in NCAA Div. I. Minot can barely run with top 10-15 teams in Div. II competition. Therefore I go back to my original argument that NAIA is not as tough as it use to be. This is not apples and oranges.

Also even though Admas State isn't like they use to be, they would have won NAIA easily.

ALSO- Congrats to Minot and coach Simmons and also Eastern Oregon and Coach Benny Welch. The teams of NAIA do the best with what they have and have turned out some great athletes. I'll leave it at that.

Very simple... you can't compare cross country to cross country, although you might try to.

The ranking of even like-division teams is an almost impossible task.

There is no valid aruement to say one team is better than another unless they compete head-to-head in a national championship, so your claim that the NAIA is down is invalid. You can't back it up (directly that is)

Wait till track and you will see that the "quality of depth" that you think is down in the NAIA is better than it has been in a decade. Just watch.

Just my thoughts.

PS SDSU and USD (and Minot for that matter), are all the same to me

Hey yaya,

Actually I didn't start the comparison, just debated your comparison (Minot beat SD, etc.). I actually stated the same thing you did when you originally started the post- that the NAIA course can be tough.

Also the top runners in NAIA are very tough, I just believe the depth has fallen off quite a bit (just a personal opinion). I agree we will see some great performances from these runners, but not its depth, but the front running studs.

I agree that NAIA team depth is down. A little research shows that a team like Concordia which finished 6th in the NAIA was crushed (22-71) by the 4th place team in the NCAA III Nebraska Wesleyan in their conference meet.

I hate to tell you but about 7 of the guys that you referenced in that fast year ran this year at nationals. All of them a lot slower than the fast year. Something has to click there saying something about the course or how the race unfolded this year. First mile was about 502 at the very front this year then the second is just shit mudhole and then you hit the 20 mph wind as you go past the start again. But no the naia is not as deep as the ncaa. naia just doesnt have the resources or lure that the ncaa has.