I'm a high school girl trying to narrow down my college search and a couple of Ivy's are definitely a possibly for me. My family is really worried I wont be able to balance the academic and athletic lives. My GPA is 4.15, but my test scores are just good, nothing great (ACT-26). I know the importance of an Ivy degree, but I also want to be able to enjoy
my college experience.
0/10.
not gonna get into an ivy with those specs.
First: "Ivies" and not "Ivy's"--not to be a jerk, but to urge you to have *two* people proofread every part of every one of your college apps. (Though that's advice I give everyone.)
Second: GPAs are jazzed around so much these days that it's not possible for an outsider to say anything meaningful about one. What's your class rank (yes, I know schools don't do *that* any more, either)? Are you top 10% in your class?
Third: Having run and coached at an Ivy, as well as other colleges, I can tell you that being on a team--in part because it organizes your day--has been *huge* for people's academic success (track/xc teams consistently have a higher GPA than the college's average), and a major part of their enjoyment of their college years. If academic success is important to you, then being on a team (with all the counseling and tutoring resources available, plus the assistance of upperclassmen) is a major asset.
Fourth: Being on a team immediately gives you dozens of friends and "big sisters"--I know the Cornell teams are renowned for their "family" vibe, and I'd bet the same is true at other Ivies--and certainly helps fill the "enjoyment" quota with travel (and the *good* parties!).
Good luck with your college search. Get all your applications done before the holidays--it's a pain, but the relief will be tremendous.
My class rank is 05/101. I know my test scores aren't good enough to get in normally, but I know I would get in athletically through the team.
eh, don't worry so much. I was an average student at an Ivy and was on a team all four years and also worked on the newspaper. It was not a stressful existence.
Remember that this is not D1 - my experience was that there is less pressure on coaches to win, so there is less pressure passed on to the student athletes.
Hard to get in, hard to flunk out.
Student Athlete at Ivy's wrote:
My class rank is 05/101. I know my test scores aren't good enough to get in normally, but I know I would get in athletically through the team.
Correct - if the coach wants you, you will get in. I know a kid at a certain Ivy (i.e. the one that begins with H) with almost identical numbers. Recruited and admitted.
Lots of students are able to balance their athletics and academics. Schools like Harvard and Princeton have something like 98% graduation rates and loads of varsity sports. It will totally possible to be part of a varsity team, study and do well in class, and still have some time to relax. Part of it depends on you - if you are a slow reader and take forever to do homework, it will obviously be more difficult. But you can do it. Heck, if the hockey players can graduate, you can, too. Part of it also will depend on your major or concentration - some are a lot harder than others, obviously.
The big issue with sports is that it will limit your participation in other organized college activities. It will be hard to sing in an a cappella group. write for the school newspaper, participate in an environmental club, be part of a drama group, whatever, and do varsity sports. Some students are ok with this. Some get there and discover new interests and end up dropping the sports. That's ok, too.
agip wrote:
Remember that this is not D1 - my experience was that there is less pressure on coaches to win, so there is less pressure passed on to the student athletes.
1) It IS D1. What "Ivy" did you attend, that led you to think otherwise?
2) I think the thing about less pressure (from above) on the coaches is probably accurate, though most Ivy teams have traditional opponents whom they dearly want to beat. (The Ivy League actually has some dual/tri meets--rare nowadays in D1--and these generate tremendous team spirit.)
Still, some of the Ivy coaches themselves have *very* strong expectations of winning--esp. the Ivy ("Heptagonal") championships--and their teams tend to mirror that.
Those Heps championships are often the best-attended conference meets in D1. The atmosphere is just electric. And I've seen a lot of League camaraderie at Nationals, with Ivy athletes and coaches rooting for athletes from other Ivy colleges.
lease wrote:
agip wrote:Remember that this is not D1 - my experience was that there is less pressure on coaches to win, so there is less pressure passed on to the student athletes.
1) It IS D1. What "Ivy" did you attend, that led you to think otherwise?
---
Well, I should have written 'this is not big league D1' There is a big difference between Ivy athletics and big league D1 - from what I read of pressures on athletes at the wiscos, colorados and oregons of the world...
Probably especially on the womens side.
But technically you are correct.
lease wrote:
1) It IS D1. What "Ivy" did you attend, that led you to think otherwise?
Yep, D1. wink-wink
I doubt the academics at whichever Ivy you are going to are going to be any more difficult than an average school. The difference between a high-ranked school and an unranked school is the student body, not the academics.
You are smart enough to get in to most, assuming you meet the athletic standards. Academics aren't hard as long as you avoid tough classes. Most professors want to give you B's. You can get around a 3.0 with low to moderate effort. Go for it.
There are huge differences between the schools in terms of academic difficulty. For instance, if it is someone's goal to get a 4.0 at an elite American institution, Brown may be the easiest place to do so. (Not to knock Brown...everyone I've met who went there is deadly smart).
Cornell, on the other hand, has a reputation of being quite difficult. Princeton, too, has elaborate thesis requirements that may make it harder than the others.
My assumption is that most intelligent, hardworking people (loosely used here) have no trouble juggling school and running at an Ivy. Generally, people's academic troubles stem from something else.
The OP is Flagpole pretending to be his daughter
Ivyguy, I'm calling your bluff. I highly doubt you attended an Ivy. Do tell us what school it was! Not only did you make the blunder about them not being Div. 1 (a comment no Ivy athlete would ever make) then you say the bit about tutoring. Two years ago we talked to all the Ivy xc and track coaches at length except for one school (talked by phone only), and asked about academic support for athletes. The coaches were uniformly proud to say that Ivy athletes are just as smart and academically prepared as all the other students. Remember the Ivy League does not allow for more than a small admissions bump for athletes; they have to have almost the same grades and scores as everyone else--especially for lower profile sports like xc and track. Therefore, it the policy at places like Harvard to offer any special tutoring for athletes. They have access to the same tutoring as the regular students do--no more, no less. Not saying the tutoring isn't good, but it's not special in any way. In other words, they're not going to "help" you get good grades, wink wink. As far as the academic counseling, that is mostly about making sure NCAA progress toward graduation requirements are being met. Now the academic services might be different for higher profile sports like football and men's basketball, but there was nothing special for track kids such as you might see at other Div. 1 schools. It's relatively easy to find smart distance runners.
About how hard it is to manage both sports and studies at the Ivies: go to Penn Relays and watch the various teams. Come back and tell us which kids you see studying in the stands. We sat near Yale two years in a row and those kids all had text books open. The academics/athletics balancing act can be done, but don't let anyone tell you it is easy. We know several runners at top schools who are really struggling and who wished they had gone to easier schools.
sorry, should read "it ISN'T the policy at place like Harvard to offer any special tutoring for athletes."
c'mon Flaggy wrote:
The OP is Flagpole pretending to be his daughter
Nope!
WEJO, DO AN IP CHECK, AND IF I LIE, BAN ME FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
nordicmama wrote:
Ivyguy, I'm calling your bluff. I highly doubt you attended an Ivy.
Doubt away--though why someone would lie on an anonymous message board is beyond me. I turned down Stanford and Caltech to go Ivy.
Do tell us what school it was!
No. I'm too close to outing myself already.
Not only did you make the blunder about them not being Div. 1 (a comment no Ivy athlete would ever make)...
Right--that's why agip, not I, made it. I take it that, with that reading comprehension, you *didn't* go Ivy?
...then you say the bit about tutoring. Two years ago we talked to all the Ivy xc and track coaches at length except for one school (talked by phone only), and asked about academic support for athletes. The coaches were uniformly proud to say that Ivy athletes are just as smart and academically prepared as all the other students.
In our sports, this is correct.
Remember the Ivy League does not allow for more than a small admissions bump for athletes; they have to have almost the same grades and scores as everyone else--especially for lower profile sports like xc and track. Therefore, it the policy at places like Harvard [not] to offer any special tutoring for athletes. They have access to the same tutoring as the regular students do--no more, no less. Not saying the tutoring isn't good, but it's not special in any way. In other words, they're not going to "help" you get good grades, wink wink.
Okay, I see the ambiguity in my post. Yes, the whole point is that, at Ivies, tutoring is available for all (just as need-based financial aid is). And because the Ivy colleges bring in some (not many) somewhat lesser-prepared students--often *not* athletes--for diversity's sake, and are committed to having them succeed, they all (or at least all the Ivies I know) have pretty good tutoring/counseling programs in place--*which the athletes can use*.
As far as the academic counseling, that is mostly about making sure NCAA progress toward graduation requirements [is] being met.
That must vary from school to school, then.
Now the academic services might be different for higher profile sports like football and men's basketball, but there was nothing special for track kids such as you might see at other Div. 1 schools. It's relatively easy to find smart distance runners.
Certainly true. Not all members of track and field teams are distance runners, however.
About how hard it is to manage both sports and studies at the Ivies: go to Penn Relays and watch the various teams. Come back and tell us which kids you see studying in the stands. We sat near Yale two years in a row and those kids all had text books open. The academics/athletics balancing act can be done, but don't let anyone tell you it is easy.
My own Ivy students, at my suggestion, also used to study (at appropriate times) when on competition trips. The Ivy academics can be difficult (experience speaks), but the only semesters I was on the high honor roll were when I was fully committed to running--that commitment (and concomitant time management) improved my grades.
We know several runners at top schools who are really struggling and who wished they had gone to easier schools.
Point taken. But are they all at Ivies? And in any case, is there any reason to think they'd be doing *better* academically, at their current schools, if they weren't running? All my experience, as athlete and coach, goes the other way.
Stan, Yale, USC, Harvard are a bitch but you don't have 60% CJKIPEs to f u c k up the curve at exam time.
Freshmen are so nervous at USCD, Berkeley, and UCLA, at midterms and finals, some vomit in class.
pqowsk wrote:
I doubt the academics at whichever Ivy you are going to are going to be any more difficult than an average school. The difference between a high-ranked school and an unranked school is the student body, not the academics.
Stunningly ignorant post. Academics at the top ivy league schools (H/Y/P) are exceedingly demanding and require a huge commitment of time and diligence. Competing in a three-season set of sports (XC. in and out track) detracts substantially from academics (time away from campus to attend meets results in class absences that are very difficult to make up). Unless you are a top academic (99th %ile is the norm in the ivy league; athletes in general can get in a standard deviation below that if their athletic qualifications are best in the U.S., but in XC / track, particularly the distance folks, there are enough 99%ile types to preclude the need to scrounge around below that level).
God bless.
Stunningly ignorant post. Academics at the top ivy league schools (H/Y/P) are exceedingly demanding and require a huge commitment of time and diligence. Competing in a three-season set of sports (XC. in and out track) detracts substantially from academics
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I can't speak for HYP, but this is not true at Dartmouth. You could have a life in sports and still do very well academically. Without staying up all night. And when we raced HYP they didn't seem all that different than us, studying wise.
So not so stunningly ignorant a post.
(although my experience was 25 years ago)