BREAKING Report: Lance Abandoning Fight vs Doping Charges, TDF Titles Gone

I thought the point of arbitration, as opposed to a trial, is that they can agree to whatever they want. If LA would forfeit all his titles in exchange for lesser consequences in other areas, say reimbursement of financial winnings, then that should be OK. The question is if the ASO would even let anyone forfeit their past wins - maybe not.

The Riis case was different. He admitted drug use to stop the media speculation which was interfering with his business. He was never charged by anyone. After his admission I believe what happened is that either UCI or the Danish cycling federation wanted him stripped of his title but the ASO refused under the SOL. Someone can correct me if that's wrong.

Tor wrote: They see Armstrong as a key link if cycling is ever going to change it's dirty and corrupt history.

Those people are idiots. Of all the arguments being bandied about on this subject, the above notion is absolutely the most absurd of them all. Authorities can ban Armstrong, strip him of every title he ever accepted, throw him in jail, bankrupt him, bankrupt his foundation, have him drawn and quartered, castrate his male children, and give him 30 lashes with a wet noodle. It will have no effect on the sport of cycling as it exists today.

If you believe Armstrong should be punished for past transgressions, so be it. Heck, throw a party on the day he's stoned in the public square! But anything done to bust Lance Armstrong will have absolutely no effect on today's competitive cycling. READ MY LIPS: BAGGING THE ELEPHANT WILL NOT CLEAN UP CYCLING!!!

The only way to clean up cycling is to bust the current cyclists. Nail them all until participation boils down to nothing. It is the only way. After all, when Brad Wiggins is sticking a needle in his arse, he doesn't care that a retired has-been is battling USADA.

Tor wrote: Thanks for the legal clarification. What is your opinion on USADA using conspiracy charges to go beyond the SOL and 2004?

The conspiracy charges are soft. That means trying to make a case, just because you believe you are right, will get some oversight you do not want. Never put yourself in that situation.

If your boss sets a deadline for a work product, you need to meet that deadline and work as hard as you can. That will keep the boss happy. That will keep the doors open for your future advancement.

The CEO of the USADA seems to have forgotten who can control his organization. It is not the CEO. It is not WADA. It is not the Board of Directors of the USADA. It is the entities providing the funding, mostly the U.S. Federal Government. They are, like it or not, the boss in this situation.

Bozo the Tygart wrote:

READ MY LIPS: BAGGING THE ELEPHANT WILL NOT CLEAN UP CYCLING!!!

Maybe not by itself, but we need to know who was in cahoots with the elephant. A good first step is to nail Johan Bruyneel. He's more likely than Lance to sing about who in the UCI knew what when.

Bozo the Tygart wrote:

But anything done to bust Lance Armstrong will have absolutely no effect on today's competitive cycling. READ MY LIPS: BAGGING THE ELEPHANT WILL NOT CLEAN UP CYCLING!!!

The only way to clean up cycling is to bust the current cyclists. Nail them all until participation boils down to nothing. It is the only way. After all, when Brad Wiggins is sticking a needle in his arse, he doesn't care that a retired has-been is battling USADA.

Although we're usually on different sides of the argument wrt Lance, I have to agree with you on this one. If Lance had never cycled a day in his life, the EPO-era would still have been just as dirty. Festina would still have happened. The 18 deaths due to EPO induced heart attacks in the 1980s would still have happened. The 8 deaths in the 2000s due to EPO induced heart attacks would still have happened. Willy Voet would still have happened. Bruyneel would have still managed a dirty team, just not U.S. Postal, etc. etc.

If they really want to clean it up, they need to totally revise the testing rules, make the physical testing much more invasive, make unannounced inspections of team buses and hotels part of the rules, make sanctions much tougher... but that'll never happen, and I really wonder if we'll ever have confidence in a clean Giro, TdF, or Vuelta.

I wonder why WADA/USADA does not extend the testing period for athletes. Basically, test them everyday for 2-4 weeks before an event, and 2-4 weeks after. For the athletes to stay in a specific hotel with 24-hour escort, and all food controlled, during the entire period. It seems this would severely curtail the opportunity to use any performance enhancers.

Cheaters are people my friend wrote:

I thought the point of arbitration, as opposed to a trial, is that they can agree to whatever they want.

No, that is the point of a settlement. Even there the right to negotiate is not unlimited but both arbitration and trials allow considerable latitude for the parties to settle.

Bozo the Tygart wrote:

READ MY LIPS: BAGGING THE ELEPHANT WILL NOT CLEAN UP CYCLING!!!

Add one more change to deter cheating... extra blood and urine samples taken during testing, and frozen for future testing with no statute of limitations on the testing or the punishment... imagine Indurain and Conconi and Padilla being outed a decade or two later as new testing revealed Banesto's team-wide doping... imagine every team in the TdF from '91 to '05 being implicated... imagine lifetime bans for all riders, team managers, team doctors, etc. implicated in the coverup... that's how you really clean house and move forward, making sure that none of the people who tested positive have any access to cycling moving forward... you can't have prior cheaters become your team managers, team doctors, leadership in UCI or ASO or USA Cycling... pipe dream, never happen, but that's part of what you'd need to do

Bozo the Tygart wrote:

The only way to clean up cycling is to bust the current cyclists. Nail them all until participation boils down to nothing. It is the only way. After all, when Brad Wiggins is sticking a needle in his arse, he doesn't care that a retired has-been is battling USADA.

Your conclusion is erroneous.

Cyclists don't make the drugs, and they are not the ones promoting the drugs.

The drugs are made, produced, falsely represented, lied about and sold by the pharmaceutical corporations, their subsidiaries WADA, the USADA, and various other alphabet agencies.

Cyclists have nothing to do with it, and nothing will change for you, as long as you think they do.