Lots of bizarre crap on the velodrome, but the motorbike paced race was really strange. They rode fairly slowly but gradually accelerating behind what looked like a moped, and it pulled off with 2+ laps to go to let the bicyclists sprint to the finish. Seems a bit contrived, and unworthy of the olympics. Am I wrong?
Not at all
How about the "sprint" where they ride about 1mph for two laps? Whatever you think of that tactic, there are some objectively wrong things about that race.
1) The coach/kickstand guy pushes the guy down the track at the start.
So, in track, one false start and you are out. In biking, your coach can push you down the track, perfectly fine.
2) They don't waterfall start. The finishes can be closer than the difference a waterfall start would make, so the 2nd place guy could very easily be the real winner of a race. Same thing happens in speed skating. At least in velo the guy who is racing further gets to start at a high elevation.
MortQ wrote:
How about the "sprint" where they ride about 1mph for two laps?
First to the finish wins. What about that seems so complicated?
Please react to my main points.
I guess the first thing that seems so "complicated" is that the first lap is totally useless, why don't they just ride two laps?
Oh boy, it's the MortQ man again. I don't have the energy this time around. Troll la roll.
MortQ wrote:
Please react to my main points.
I guess the first thing that seems so "complicated" is that the first lap is totally useless, why don't they just ride two laps?
Sounds kinda like the 1500 on up, doesn't it?
Why would it be a troll attempt to wonder why it is ok for a coach to push their athlete down the track? That is not a troll, that is total f-ing crap not worthy of the Olympics
the push start and the lack of a waterfall don't really matter because of the slow opening.
you keep trying to compare athletics to cycling but at 30 mph, the benefit of drafting gets big enough that the dynamic is totally different. watch a bike race up a mountian, and it starts to look a lot more like running.
PS the keirin is a way to have a sprint race without the really slow jockeying at the start. the japanese invented it and it's pretty new to the olympics.
MortQ wrote:
Why would it be a troll attempt to wonder why it is ok for a coach to push their athlete down the track? That is not a troll, that is total f-ing crap not worthy of the Olympics
Why is the 3-point line where it is? Why are the uneven bars uneven? Why do sprinters get to use blocks but long-jumpers don't? Why is anything the way that it is?
I've asked all my cycling friends this question, and none of them can answer it:
If the badminton players got kicked out for "not giving their best effort," HOW IN THE WORLD do these bikers get to pedal 1 mph and slower for a full lap? They clearly aren't giving their best effort, right?
I guess the same applies for distance events, but c'mon. If you can bike 40+ mph, just do it. Stop dicking around at the beginning.
It preps us road cyclists (Eddy Merckx was injured in a Keirin), but it preps us to catch you a-holes who try
and run us off the road. Seriously, it's a tactical race.
The inverse function of Keiren is this tactic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ywi3oVbGXzQ
Jeannie Longo slows on the Alpe D'huez then sprints.
It's a tactical thing and teaches a rider to sprint.
Wisconsinite wrote:
I've asked all my cycling friends this question, and none of them can answer it:
If the badminton players got kicked out for "not giving their best effort," HOW IN THE WORLD do these bikers get to pedal 1 mph and slower for a full lap? They clearly aren't giving their best effort, right?
I guess the same applies for distance events, but c'mon. If you can bike 40+ mph, just do it. Stop dicking around at the beginning.
I don' understand the track cycling either, but in those events the riders who are going so slow are actually trying to win the event. In badminton case, they were trying to lose their matches.
WTF does "NRR" mean?
Wisconsinite wrote:
I've asked all my cycling friends this question, and none of them can answer it:
If the badminton players got kicked out for "not giving their best effort," HOW IN THE WORLD do these bikers get to pedal 1 mph and slower for a full lap? They clearly aren't giving their best effort, right?
I guess the same applies for distance events, but c'mon. If you can bike 40+ mph, just do it. Stop dicking around at the beginning.
(1) Time doesn't matter, but position does. They are trying hard to maintain or take the more advantageous position. As an aside, I'd say there is something wrong with the badminton tournament structure if playing poorly is an advantage. I don't know anything about it, so maybe I'm saying something dumb, but shouldn't the more favorable tournament spots be awarded to the strongest teams?
(2)If you don't like seeing races strongly affected by positioning.tactics, there are events in cycling where you just go: the road TT, the team sprint, the 500m/kilo TT, the individual & team pursuits, and the flying lap in qualifying. Is it so bad to have events that differ in more than just distance? The individual pursuit and kilo TT (or 500m for the women for some reason) were axed from the olympics to make room for BMX in 2008, although they still exist as part of the omnium event.
Rainbo wrote:
WTF does "NRR" mean?
Not Running Related
You're welcome.
MortQ wrote:
How about the "sprint" where they ride about 1mph for two laps?
I saw this event for the first time last night and just could not figure out for the life of me what was going on. Obviously the first guy across the line on the 3rd lap wins, but everything else in between was a mystery. And what is the deal with the coaches giving them a little push on the fanny to help get them going? Can't they just get their bike going like a normal rider?
I understand why they ride slow for the first 2 laps (to gain/preserve position), but I dont understand why they ride THAT slow... seems like if someone threw in a fast lap from the start it would really shake up the other rider, who seemingly would not be prepared for that.
The whole coach push thing revolves around being clipped into the pedals and the gearing. Their shoes are attached to the pedals, so they cant start the race from a standstill with both feet on the pedals. The bikes are single speed, and the gear they ride is massive, much larger than any road bike. Look at their cadence when they're going 40mph, then imagine how slow the turnover would be from 0mph.
You are correct... but the thing is that both riders have to be "ready" from the beginning of the race. if either took off, the other would quickly follow and use the draft to easily win the race. it's a tactical advantage to be behind the other rider, so it's best to try to go as slow as possible
Sad state of affairs when even track cycling is far too complicated for the American audience.