It's the irish influence!- the track sessions in Northern Ireland at his pre-games training camp that made all the difference.
It's the irish influence!- the track sessions in Northern Ireland at his pre-games training camp that made all the difference.
congratulations makhloufi. you are the best and all my condolences to the haters. the guy is like a turbo. it has been known that 1500 m is algerian moroccan specialty the last 25 years. Most Algerian gold medalist were 1500 m runners, 2 women and morcelli if some of you remember him . so your skepticism is nonsense. You should rise your eyebrow to how leo run the last 50 m .
800m coach 234 wrote:
Look Manzano is the guy that should be suspect. Just because he's American, he's not suspect? Manzano had the tenth-fastest personal best out of the 12 runners in the final and got the silver. Why are you all questioning the guy with the 5th fastest pb who got gold, but not the guy with the 10th fastest pb that got silver?
So the fasted guy should win, 2nd fasted guy comes 2nd.... 10th fastet guy comes 10th?
What about the Norwegian? So juiced up he burst out of his shorts.
Nobody if even close to being as suspicious as the Algerian.
Tampere wrote:
A very good analysis by Deanouk as always. Nothing to add.
Just one thing. Bile ran the last 800 1.46,0(that was more than suspicious).
Thanks! There are far too many posters on here who just see a man winning easily and concluding he is on drugs, because it makes them feel better that their man is the best.
The Algerian ran a 3:30 a couple of weeks ago and now wins gold with a finish that wasn't as good as Coe's or Morceli's or EL G's. Yet he has improved "too much" people cry.
Look at Willis. He ran a 3:30 in Monaco, yet 6 days before with almost the same pace (and full drafting) to the bell as he had in Monaco, he could only manage a last 400m of 60 - 61 secs to finish in 3:53 (equivalent to a 3:36 for 1500m)
So in almost identical set ups Willis goes from being a 3:36 man to a 3:30 man in less than a week!!? That is a much bigger jump in performance in a much shorter time than what Makhloufi did yesterday. How many people are pointing this out and asking questions about his rapid improvement?
Willis then goes from 3:30 form to also ran at the Olympics with no injury problems. Shouldn't a big drop in performance be as suspicious as a big improvement?
I'm not saying Willis is a cheat (I don't think he is, although I never saw him as a 3:30 runner), but I am trying to point out that there is no consistency and fairness with all these drug accusations.
Lets look at Manzano. A couple of weeks ago he was unable to break 4 mins in the Mile at Crystal Palace, in a well paced race that was won more than 8 seconds faster. He came 11th!! Yet here he is at the Olympics running a 3:34 and winning the silver medal. Everyone is "patting him on the back" without a hint of confusion as to how he has gone from outside 4 mins (3:43 for 1500m)
to being hailed as the "worthy" Olympic champion. That's an improvement of 9 secs.
BTW, sorry to be pedantic, but Bile went through 700m in 1:49.9 in the 87 World final, so his last 800 was 1:46.9 not 1:46.0. You can't see him actually pass the line from the video, but if you use other markers around it which are visible with a time, and using what and where he passed those points on laps where you can see his time at the finish line, one is able to work out his last 800 a bit more accurately. Hope that makes sense? In any case, 1:46.0 or 1:46.9 (or anywhere in between) it was bloody fast and came from totally nowhere!
Too many hypocrites on here.
Here, here! He has trained very hard for a sustained period of time within a good group and under the influence of a respected coach. Fully deserved victory and great to see!
Good analysis Deanouk, but in regards to for example Manzano or Willis; This is the Olympics, its doubtful these runners let up and 'peak' for races like the one in Crystal Palace. Much more likely that its a race used as a hard workout, and therefor not being fully recovered from training when racing.
What makes me suspicious the most is the fact that when Taoufik was in Sweden, every athlete of a certain level talked about him and his cheating. They talked about watching him on training camps before christmas looking like a hobby jogger, then in easter going from one workout to another (with top world runners) and beating everyone in the workout, like watching a drugged up beast and it was like seeing a completely different guy than during early winter.
You guys seem to be ignoring the fact that one semi final was 8 seconds slower than the other. Surely it would've made a difference?
Nick Willis's final was run in 3:34 8 seconds faster than the other. The runner from the quick semi final finished very poorly and came 3rd, 4th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th and 11th. Only an injured Kenyan finished outside the top 6 from the very slow semi final. Thoughts?
JoeiceColdCool wrote:
You guys seem to be ignoring the fact that one semi final was 8 seconds slower than the other. Surely it would've made a difference?
Nick Willis's final was run in 3:34 8 seconds faster than the other. The runner from the quick semi final finished very poorly and came 3rd, 4th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th and 11th. Only an injured Kenyan finished outside the top 6 from the very slow semi final. Thoughts?
Possibly, but then they should have trained for this scenario. Willis ran a 3:34.8 in a semi, then had a days rest, then had nothing in the final run in 3:34. A top guy should be able to cope with this.
Compare to Coe in LA. He ran a 3:35 semi (not to mention it being his 6th race in 8 days) and then a 3:32 final the very next day, with no rest. That's because he trained expecting to having to do this.
Deanouk, nice work and well written. But virtually unknown runners simply do not walk away with ease from the best milers in a row two races in a row (semi and final). Other than Ramzi, it doesn't happen.
Like someone else said - it's not the times, it's how he won the race that raise the red flag.
For the record, I am actually more sad about this guy than happy for Leo, which absolutely sucks. Very bad day for T/F.
agip wrote:
Deanouk, nice work and well written. But virtually unknown runners simply do not walk away with ease from the best milers in a row two races in a row (semi and final). Other than Ramzi, it doesn't happen.
Like someone else said - it's not the times, it's how he won the race that raise the red flag.
For the record, I am actually more sad about this guy than happy for Leo, which absolutely sucks. Very bad day for T/F.
Thanks. I'm not saying he hasn't cheated. I really don't know. But he is hardly an unknown. He ran 3:32 two years ago and came into these champs having run a 1:43 & 3:30.
His semi was a good run but was made to look better as the others were just wanting to qualify & Kiprop was poor.
Running a 3:41 and then a 3:34 with a days rest between is not evidence of drug use.
It was possibly the weakest 1500 field (for whatever reason) in decades. Makhloufi ran to the potential of a 3:30 runner. The rest of the field ran below their potential. That is all that can be deduced from the race.
If Makhloufi goes on to run a 3:27 on the circuit in the next few weeks then I'll happily revise my opinion of his cheating. What he did yesterday was not that of a 3:27 runner.
DMV area wrote:
sanchobaile wrote:Makhloufi is no El G. Just because Makhloufi came close to something El G did doesn't prove he isn't doping.
I agree people need to consider the guy innocent until proven guilty, but you have to understand skepticism when it comes to someone running so dominantly for the first time ever, and that, for whatever it's worth, his nationality raises questions based on history.
^this
His nationality? Only two Algerians have ever had doping sanctions on them.
deanouk wrote:
agip wrote:Deanouk, nice work and well written. But virtually unknown runners simply do not walk away with ease from the best milers in a row two races in a row (semi and final). Other than Ramzi, it doesn't happen.
Like someone else said - it's not the times, it's how he won the race that raise the red flag.
For the record, I am actually more sad about this guy than happy for Leo, which absolutely sucks. Very bad day for T/F.
It was possibly the weakest 1500 field (for whatever reason) in decades.
___
I have to disagree with you there - just on 2012 times, it had five guys who had run 3:30 this year:
Kiprop 3:28
Kiplagat 3:29
Chepseba: 3:29
Willis: 330
Makhloufi: 3:30
That is probably a very strong field historically.
A virtually unknown guy does not run away from these guys with that kind of ease.
It's always good to see that at least one person on letsrun forum is able to stay to some facts and bring them together with some good (although this should be normal) rationality and logic.
The overall quality of the 1500m finale was very weak and I really don't know what has happened to the Kenyans. I don't know if Makloufi is a cheat, but all this bs talking here is beyond my imagination.
People here are questioning an improvement from 3:34 over 3:32 to 3:30!! From 1:46 to 1:43,88 is big improvement, but also nothing we hadn't seen before many many times.
His split times - as deanouk has pointed out very clearly - also weren't really spectacular in any way.
To ban him after his DNF in the 800m heat just was ridiculous. If he wouldn't have been reinstated I would have had a great problem to look athletics anymore. Maybe it wasn't a very clever thing from him to start his 800m heat (probably more a mistake by his fedaration). But this rule just is nonsense. Many many great athletes should have been banned in the past then. John Walker ('77 World Cup). Kenenisa Bekele ('11 World Champs). Sebastian Coe (who stopped an indoor race in '88 after beeing lapped). Said Aouita (who stopped running hard after realising he hadn't any chance against Morceli in '91 World Champs). Steve Ovett (who lost a 5000m race in '80 just because he celebrated way too early). Carl Lewis (who jumped just two times in LA '84). Just a few examples. I could add many more examples.
The stupidity of some rules and also some of many "officiels" are beyond me.
But it's topped by the stupidity of many people posting in letsrun.
Said all this, I also wouldn't be to surprised if there will be an major change to the 1500m result in some time.
said88 wrote:
The overall quality of the 1500m finale was very weak and I really don't know what has happened to the Kenyans.
no, we can't gloss over this kind of statement. That field was very strong - 5 guys at 3:30 or below in 2012. Plus the former gold medalist kiprop. Plus a silver medalist (willis). Plus a wc bronze medalist (centrowitz.
agip wrote:
said88 wrote:The overall quality of the 1500m finale was very weak and I really don't know what has happened to the Kenyans.
no, we can't gloss over this kind of statement. That field was very strong - 5 guys at 3:30 or below in 2012. Plus the former gold medalist kiprop. Plus a silver medalist (willis). Plus a wc bronze medalist (centrowitz.
But these runners didn't run like that. The 3 Kenyans were the fastest - how have they run?. I havn't said the quality of the competitors in the finale was weak. I have said the quality of the race was weak.
agip wrote:
deanouk wrote:It was possibly the weakest 1500 field (for whatever reason) in decades.
___
I have to disagree with you there - just on 2012 times, it had five guys who had run 3:30 this year:
Kiprop 3:28
Kiplagat 3:29
Chepseba: 3:29
Willis: 330
Makhloufi: 3:30
That is probably a very strong field historically.
A virtually unknown guy does not run away from these guys with that kind of ease.
None of those guys turned up and ran anywhere near their potentials based on their times above. None. They all ran way below par, for whatever reason. If you can't see that just by doing a bit of research and looking at (& understanding) their split times, then I can't help you.
Look what happened to the guys who followed Makhloufi's move: they all blew up. These are guys who looked good in rounds, in the rest of the season, and up to the very moment that Makhloufi started sprinting.
If you just look at the last 400m you're missing the story, as the decisive move was from 1200-1300m. Makhloufi coasted in the last 100m unchallenged, and could've gone faster if he needed to.
Also, just the fact that you're now comparing this guy to Coe, Cram, and El G. should raise warning flags. From DFL to compareable with all timers in the span of a season?
noce wrote:
Makhloufi in Daegu 2011, looking strong in a slow race but then running out of gas in the final kick:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vts8_XEpMT0Something is different now.
Please, everyone watch this. This is a semifinal race that took place less than a year ago.
Sure, everyone has a bad day once in a while. It's a bit rarer to be thoroughly outclassed in a preliminary in one championship race, and then to come back in the next championship and make everyone look silly. Is there any precedent for that?
What nobody seems to be mentioning is that after the race not a single athlete from that race (except for a reluctant Ingebritsen), congratulated him on his victory. I think they all knew somehow that something wasn't quite right.
it has been mentioned before - perhaps another thread.
But it is a valid point.