Who is the best 1500m/Miler ever?

moron

it doesn't

coe didn't break 3'32.1 in '80 & wessinhage/hudak ran 3'31.5/3'31.9 hunting ovett into the ground

coe in his wildest dreams woudn't have run 3'28 in '80

he wouda been lucky to crack 3'31 in a perfect race

wessy/hudak already got into 3'31s in non-perfect races & wessy did all the donkey-work in koblenz

moron

the guy was a 16y ole school-leaver with shit-for brains as is his disciple

when watman gets a phd in "athletics" i'd listen

moron

he beat coe's pb & coe didn't beat harald's time until 4y later !

harald was big threat if he'd gone

moron

not in mid-'80

coe's win was immediately devalued

win it in bayi style in 3'31.0, no arguments

he ran shit time of 3'38.40

only a complete idiot tries to big up this kinda time

idiot

no one claimed he was a x-country guy & he had just qualified/working as a doctor

moron he only came 4th with 4'59.9 which was down to studying/working as doc

coe edged out some giant called alejandre gonzales in 4'59

of course coe didn't rematch in the 4'52.20...

moron

try coe in his 4'52.20 race or that koblenz 3'31.5

coe wouda got hammered in 1st & fighting for his life to even edge wessy, let alone beat ovett

moron

because you were a 5y ole in '80, means you have shit to offer on adults following it at the time

wessy & hudak running 3'31's relgated coes's chances to low without boycott, to any adult intepretation at the time, but you are excluded as still just outta kindergarden

idiot

you can't offer a contemporary opinion hardly out of diapers for that era

more like 5th/6th behind the germans

moron

it was so piss-slow at 3'38 that no one with a brain woud offer any split & try to grandize it but an utter f*cking idiot...

moron

what part of your peabrain doesn't understand 1'47 ???

it's a shit time

get it into your numbskull, it's a shit time

moron

like when in last 30y ???

moron

drafting behind cram 500 - 700m

moron

a ht final time

that hand-time 100 is off no value

he got hammered by cruz later that year & he ran his 3rd fastest ever of 1'43.07 & there was no "12.3" finish there

of course, he mighta had another

"toxoplasmosis-transfusion ilness"

to slow him down from may-august...

moron

no one bothers recording final splits in modern 1'47 races

with drafting all the way

worth 46.5+

he wasn't quick enough to be 1st/anchor

moron

how many times do you have to be told to get it into your peabrain ???

it was complete shit

1'47.28

drivel

no "official" splits

as always ht, compared to modern side-on views where splits applicable

sorry

loughborough is not los angeles with world looking on

still, 1'42.9 on synthetic looks expected

moron

ryun ran 1'44.3 on semi-synthetic - only created to drain well in rain, not speed concern

it was world capital of 800 running at the time to get legendary track ?

terre haute, indiana

moron

caballo ran 44.26

everett ran 44.59

tellez ran 45.27

don't ever talk drivel about coe having any mentionable 400 speed compared to other elite 800 guys

You have to go with Seb Coe. The guy was just unbeatable at the distance in his prime he could run world record pace like El G, Morcelli and Ryun and also had the speed to out kick anybody. Not to mention he is the only guy to ever win two olympic golds in the 1500.

Coe is the greatest middle distance runner to ever race

You really are a joke Eldrik.

Almost all you have written is either inaccurate or based on a warped sense of reality.

You have no idea how old I was in 1980, and even before I ever started school, I already had a far more grounded and emotionally stable disposition than you have ever had.

Just a couple of your c**k ups:-

Coe's 12.3 in a 1:44.0 was in 81, so you are an idiot to state he was beaten by Cruz "later that year". He beat Cruz at the World Cup by about 25m.

Coe's 45.5 received no drafting and he ran wide for some of it. And it was the fastest leg of the quartet. It was also faster than Harold Schmid's leg, who was the fastest man in the world over 400m that year.

You have stated a variety of times yourself for Coe's open 400 speed in 81, ranging from 45 low to 45.7. This was faster than any other 800 guy in his era and is favourable to most elite 2 lap runners in history. You conveniently mention 400 specialists for comparison who moved up to 800, none of who were in the same league as Coe at 800m.

As for Mel Watman, he certainly wasn't 16 in 1980. He had already been the editor of AW for 20 years and he's gone on to write several reference books, is one of the world's leading statisticians and has covered practically every Olympics since 1960. You may have seen "every top race since whenever" on your little tv with your calculator next to you, but he's actually seen them first hand in the stadium and interviewed all the great runners of the past 50 years. What have you achieved during that time?

Answer ~ produced an inefficient and ridiculous calculator that no athletic body recognises or uses and which you shamelessly advertise on here at every opportunity. You're commonly referred to as the village idiot and only have your calculator to keep you company and play with. Perhaps when you have actually achieved something of note in the athletic world, then maybe your criticism of someone with real stature and recognition is warranted. Until such a time, then you just make yourself look even more insignificant than you actually are.

Okay, after reading through more minutia than most would care to do, I have narrowed it down to Ovett or Ryun as the best miler ever.

Again, I reject most runners from the post Coe/Ovett era because the taint of PED's is just too strong.

I also reject most runners who exclusively used team tactics and/or pacers to establish WR's and/or championship wins. Yeah, I know Ovett used pacers once it became apparent that a runner had to set WR's to make a living, but during his peak years he simply just ran to win as is attested by his 3 year win streak in the 1500. And I don't think Ryun ever used a pacer.

Finally, we go to the "fear factor", that feeling of inevitable doom other competitors felt when they found out Ryun (and later Ovett) was in the race.

As for Elliot and Coe ...

Elliot's career was just too short. I would have liked to have seen him have some staying power in the sport.

And as much as I like Coe, there was just a little too much "astroturf" in his training and in his record attempts. I still discount his "I ran the stupidest race of my life" excuse for his losing to Ovett in the Moscow 800. He had no chance of beating Ovett in that race no matter what he did.

elliott's career too short? 5 years of dominance? imagine the "fear factor" of toeing the line next to someone who has NEVER been beaten in the event? i grew up idolizing coe/ovett before i'd heard of elliott, so there's no disputing their greatness. but while people hyperbolize about the "unbeatability" of ANY runner, the term only applies to elliott...

No one will know what Jim Ryun was capable of. Heck, his best 440 was a 46.9 anchor leg, after a 3:55.8 mile, in APRIL. That's not exactly the time of year one's speed is at its sharpest. His 880 WR was set 90 min after he had run a heat in 1:50.9. Incredible natural talent. Watch his 3:51.1 wherein Ryun says he felt he could have gone out and run another mile right after. Even with his ridiculous training he was capable of 3:47 at the time. Roger Bannister felt Ryun was capable of 3:45 at that time:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1080402/index.htm

Deanouk goes into amazing contortions to try and defend Coe as the greatest of all time. And Coe is one of the all-time greats. BTW, I used to think of Coe as the best 800 runner of all time, when he was 'on', meaning not sick, injured. Not anymore. Rudisha is the best. Period. Even if he doesn't win Oly gold.

Best 1500/miler? No one can say for sure. Most naturally talented? My feelings are Ryun is the best. Coe has two golds, but he ducked Ovett a lot, and vice versa. No way to argue that. Never saw El G duck anyone.

You can't just go with the fastest. That is too easy.

Who was the most dominant? Elliot and Morcelli

Who broke the world record by the most.

Hagg, Elliot and Morcelli

Who had the most Olympic titles?

Coe (2) Morcelli (1) El G (1)

Who had the most World Championship golds?

Morcelli (4), El G (3)

Winner is Morcelli

800 coach 234 wrote:

You can't just go with the fastest. That is too easy.

Who was the most dominant? Elliot and Morcelli

Who broke the world record by the most.

Hagg, Elliot and Morcelli

Who had the most Olympic titles?

Coe (2) Morcelli (1) El G (1)

Who had the most World Championship golds?

Morcelli (4), El G (3)

Winner is Morcelli

El G won 4 World Championship titles. Morceli won 3.

i wish i were as cool as vento wrote:

The only way it's not ElG is if he was in fact on drugs.

Ramzi was, why wouldn't El G be? If it quacks like a duck, smells like a duck... it's probably a duck

socal cush wrote:

elliott's career too short? 5 years of dominance? imagine the "fear factor" of toeing the line next to someone who has NEVER been beaten in the event? i grew up idolizing coe/ovett before i'd heard of elliott, so there's no disputing their greatness. but while people hyperbolize about the "unbeatability" of ANY runner, the term only applies to elliott...

"5 years of dominance" - I don't think so. Which 5 years?

No es correcto wrote:

800 coach 234 wrote:

You can't just go with the fastest. That is too easy.

Who was the most dominant? Elliot and Morcelli

Who broke the world record by the most.

Hagg, Elliot and Morcelli

Who had the most Olympic titles?

Coe (2) Morcelli (1) El G (1)

Who had the most World Championship golds?

Morcelli (3), El G (4)

Winner is Morcelli

El G won 4 World Championship titles. Morceli won 3.

I stand corrected. I'm still going with Morcelli, as he was so dominant and took the World Record from Aouita's 3:29.46 to 3:27.37 (2.09 second improvement) whereas ElG "only" took it to 3:26.00 (1.37 improvement).

RYUN DIDN'T CHEAT....high-sham-el-g did.

moron

i post logic

not drivel

moron

it's obvious your peabrain had no clue about always drivelling on on about a well smashed 800 runner, who already was shit-value when cruz ran same tenths off brutal race series 3y later

it's obvious you never lived as an adult in the late '70's/'80s & can offer nothing for the era but drivel

your posted vid

no 100m out markings

sorry, watman timings not acceptable

moron

1st leg or 4th mean something

he coud only run 46.7 open that year, so this split is worthless

no

i got

45.7

drivel

caballo 44.26

moron

most 1'41/1'43 "pure" 800 guys have anywhere between 44 - 46

coe's estimated is shit-end of range

he just wasn't fast guy, but had great endurance

moron

any guy who couda run 1'42/1'43 & 44/45 couda murdered coe in shit 1'47 races

does your peabrain think coe wouda beaten a peak caballo in those shit 1'47s ???

moron

he left school at 16y

you, as his sycophant shoud know

moron

i read some of his crap

left-school-at-16y looks about par for his ability

moron

leaving school at 16y doesn't give him any qualification

where is phd in statistics from any ivy league ???

idiot

so have 100s millions+++

i doubt it

that shit budget didn't get them everywhere/anywhere

moron

learn

most of the news was siphoned from newswires

reuters

plenty

i tried it

worked good for me

there loss

worked for me & i was told countless elites

good enough for me

no

moron

you are idiot here with only one topic

problem is, you were in short pants when he was prime of '81

just a tool i use

moron

what is this drivel ??

what on earth is this crap ???

i have no interest in

"achieved something of note in the athletic world"

you imbecile

moron

a 16y ole drop-out

idiot

moron

only a comparable moron woud big up a 16y ole drop-out

sorry, but both have/are shit-for-brains...

wait a minute wrote:

"5 years of dominance" - I don't think so. Which 5 years?

1. 1957

2. 1958

3. 1959

4. 1960

5. 1961

i will admit using the word "dominance" loosely here. he was not the top ranked 1500 runner--esp. 1957 when he ran mostly junior races while 19, and 1961 when he was essentially retired--each of those years, but he was unbeaten those five years. as for fear factor, who really wanted to line up against him?

and again, it is virtually impossible to compare eras, or apples to apples. elliott's career was short by today's standards, but average compared to his day's standards. he competed before both epo and the rise of african runners in distance, and any real money in the sport, as well as rubberized tracks.

he's just my pick. i'm surprised nobody's lobbied hard for walker, though...

Elliot Rome 60

Ryun. LA 67

Ovett. World Cup

Watch their races on Youtube. They just absolutely demolished good competition. Elliot and Ryun ran their fastest times on bad cinder tracks in bad weather with no pacers. What is that worth, five or six seconds? Ryun would have won gold in 68 at sea level and probably again in Munich. Coe has to be right in there too for his golds; his race in LA was superb, but I think he got a bit lucky in Moscow. Ovett should have won, but Cram notes in his book that Ovett was very distracted and seemed to be psyched out even before warmups.

The problem with Walker was that in the big races he was easily beaten by Bayi (Commonwealth), Ovett (World Cup), Coe (Olympics). Cram, Dixon, Byers among others also beat him.

Elliot never lost; it was almost inconceivable. A healthy Ryun was close to unbeatable.

socal cush wrote:

wait a minute wrote:

"5 years of dominance" - I don't think so. Which 5 years?

1. 1957

2. 1958

3. 1959

4. 1960

5. 1961

i will admit using the word "dominance" loosely here. he was not the top ranked 1500 runner--esp. 1957 when he ran mostly junior races while 19, and 1961 when he was essentially retired--each of those years, but he was unbeaten those five years. as for fear factor, who really wanted to line up against him?

and again, it is virtually impossible to compare eras, or apples to apples. elliott's career was short by today's standards, but average compared to his day's standards. he competed before both epo and the rise of african runners in distance, and any real money in the sport, as well as rubberized tracks.

he's just my pick. i'm surprised nobody's lobbied hard for walker, though...

Elliott's world rankings:

1957 - 6th

1958 - 1st

1959 - 6th

1960 - 1st

1961 - wasn't ranked

deanouk, love your response to Ventolin, who has no other responses other than MORON to all of them

John Walker ran 3:49.4 in 1976 and 3:49.73 in 1984, after a 3;49.08 in '82

To me, he was as good as it gets, does not mean he was the greatest miler, but for longevity? and 1:44.x 4:51 2K and 7:37 3k and 13:20's 5K, pretty damn good.

My favorite

Look at the videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0ICn7-Uaqk&NR=1&feature=endscreen