D3 Atlantic Region 2012 XC

I've never understood the allure of "speed ratings." They are based on completely subjective factors, they aren't based on fact in any way. You cite the fact that none of the Oberlin teams had "excessively high speed ratings." So if a team actually DID get a lot faster, you take that away from them simply because you don't believe they could have gotten faster. You adjust the variables to fit your own pre-determined beliefs.

I've never understood the allure of "speed ratings." They are based on completely subjective factors, they aren't based on fact in any way. You cite the fact that none of the Oberlin teams had "excessively high speed ratings." So if a team actually DID get a lot faster, you take that away from them simply because you don't believe they could have gotten faster. You adjust the variables to fit your own pre-determined beliefs.

Translation: I don't get it.

Anyone know why RIT apparently just ran their B squad?

Does RIT even have an A squad?

SUNYACS

Geneseo

Cortland

Oneonta

Fredonia

Buff State

Plattsburg

Brockport

New Paltz

Oswego

Potsdam

AXC wrote:

Rochester women laid a big egg today. They were clearly in 2nd at halfway and ended up in 4th

I can guess why: their UAA meet is next week!

UR only competes in the UAA in cross, IIRC--they go to States for track and field--so the xc meet is their only chance each year for UAA bragging rights.

Rochacha has a storied history in the State cross-country meet, but if they have to prepare maximally for a single pre-NCAA race during xc season, it's going to be the UAA. (I've met several UAA coaches and it would be hard to overstate how important this conference meet is to them.) So I would bet that the UR women *and men* ran States coming off a pretty hard week of work; that makes the women's running out of gas in this meet easier to understand, and the men's victory *very* impressive.

UR doesn't have a shot at winning UAAs--nationally-ranked teams finish in the bottom half of that field with some frequency--but I'd say they've got a great chance to really mix it up. For various reasons (some personal) I'm not necessarily a big fan of the Yellowjackets, but credit where it's due: they're one of the AR's *top* teams this year and are having a truly outstanding season.

Can't speak to the women, but the reason U of R's men looked "weak" is because they're top guys went out in 9:50 and then bit it hard for the next 3 miles. Pretty stupid running on a fairly challenging course. Also hard to say they were prepping for UAA's specifically if they were going out that hard at a meet like states. Seems like they went after it and blew up.

That said, they still won. So that must count for something?

Spot on, my man.

retwgawsssw wrote:

SUNYACS

Geneseo

Cortland

Oneonta

Fredonia

Buff State

Plattsburg

Brockport

New Paltz

Oswego

Potsdam

You obviously weren't there, or weren't watching the race. Actually SLU was dominating the race early, pushing the pace and with a tight pack up front at 1 and 2 miles. There were really only 2 UR guys near them in the early part of the race (Pacheck and another guy, maybe Hamilton). Even at 7k the Saints were clearly winning the meet, and lost the team title because several of their top guys couldn't handle the early pace set by Rakoc, Payne, etc. A few of the top Rochester guys uncharacteristically closed strong and passed several runners late to squeak out the close victory. If you're going to play armchair race analyst, at least get your facts straight.

Doesn't take a genius to copy the regional rankings.

yee-haw wrote:

Spot on, my man.

retwgawsssw wrote:

SUNYACS

Geneseo

Cortland

Oneonta

Fredonia

Buff State

Plattsburg

Brockport

New Paltz

Oswego

Potsdam

Obviously weren't there wrote:

You obviously weren't there, or weren't watching the race. Actually SLU was dominating the race early, pushing the pace and with a tight pack up front at 1 and 2 miles. There were really only 2 UR guys near them in the early part of the race (Pacheck and another guy, maybe Hamilton). Even at 7k the Saints were clearly winning the meet, and lost the team title because several of their top guys couldn't handle the early pace set by Rakoc, Payne, etc. A few of the top Rochester guys uncharacteristically closed strong and passed several runners late to squeak out the close victory. If you're going to play armchair race analyst, at least get your facts straight.

Never said U of R's guys pushed the pace. Look at the splits (if they exist anywhere). Along with SLU and a few individuals (like Payne), the U of R guys went out at WAY faster paces (and higher places) relative to their finishes. Prove to me I'm wrong -- except you can't.

The beat SLU anyway because they're a far better overall team.

RPIguy wrote:

Overrated! wrote:

What, none of the RPI-apologists are going to come on and tell us how they're one of the best teams in the region now?

We were just tempoing the race. Wait and you will see at Regionals.

I heard that they walked up the steep hills so that they can save themselves for nationals.

Scores at 3K (based on video my friend took at the race)

SLU - 1, 3, 4, 7, 8 = 23 (final score 52)

UR - 2, 6, 9, 11, 16. = 44 (final score 48)

RPI - 10, 12, 15, 24, 25 = 86 ( final score 88)

IC - 22, 23, 31, 32, 34 = 142 (final score 82)

So the U of R guys and Rpi guys were pretty much the same place at 3k as they were at 8k, within a few points. It was SLU who crashed from a too-aggressive early pace, and Ithaca who made up tremendous ground in the later stages. Whatever you think about Rochester's performance, as a group the data shows that they didn't take it out on any crazier pace than anyone else ( with the exception of Ithaca, who obviously got out conservatively and had great movement in the back half of the race). And SLU deserves the award for getting out too fast and falling apart late (with the exceptions of Rakoc and Patterson).

Scores at 3K (based on video my friend took at the race)

SLU - 1, 3, 4, 7, 8 = 23 (final score 52)

UR - 2, 6, 9, 11, 16. = 44 (final score 48)

RPI - 10, 12, 15, 24, 25 = 86 ( final score 88)

IC - 22, 23, 31, 32, 34 = 142 (final score 82)

So the U of R guys and Rpi guys were pretty much the same place at 3k as they were at 8k, within a few points. It was SLU who crashed from a too-aggressive early pace, and Ithaca who made up tremendous ground in the later stages. Whatever you think about Rochester's performance, as a group the data shows that they didn't take it out on any crazier pace than anyone else ( with the exception of Ithaca, who obviously got out conservatively and had great movement in the back half of the race). And SLU deserves the award for getting out too fast and falling apart late (with the exceptions of Rakoc and Patterson).

Ok, so apparently I'm larely wrong. Perhaps my perception was skewed just watching the race from how much Ithaca closed on everybody. Still, there were some U of R guys that faltered late...they have a deep team that made up for it, but Wajimoto or w/e his name is has been high up in previous races (early in the year) for them and feel back into the back. But you're right, just in terms of scoring places they didn't really fade.

U of R "far better overall?" I know this wasn't regionals, but it's looking like SLU will ahve a much better low stick (Rackok) than U of R. A lot of guys will pack in between 25 mid and low 26.

This race tells me these teams are close not that one is far better than the other.

RIT? wrote:

Anyone know why RIT apparently just ran their B squad?

Overrated! wrote:

Does RIT even have an A squad?

If you're going to set up your own punchline in a second post, you should wait until there's a post or two in between.

Think about regionals... wrote:

This race tells me these teams are close not that one is far better than the other.

While everyone is on here talking about SLU and Rochester, Ithaca is out runnin straight miles. Look out for the boom at regionalz.

Peter Budaj wrote:

While everyone is on here talking about SLU and Rochester, Ithaca is out runnin straight miles. Look out for the boom at regionalz.

Genny's addition of curved and non-linear miles to their training program will benefit them come regionals, mark my words.

Regional Ranking:

1. Geneseo

2. NYU

3. Cortland

4. Rochester

5. St. Lawrence

6. RPI

7. Ithaca

8. TCNJ

9. Fredonia

10. Oneonta

RPI's better than Ithaca, regardless of yesterday's result. TCNJ might also be.

What happened to Buff State? Talk about blowing your load early.