Should USATF Let Webb into the OT 5000?

maybe a 3:37 coupled with a 14:10 --> 13:49 (uneven pacing due to rabbiting duties) improvement? What do you want from me? Alan Webb brings a certain... what the french call... i don't know what... to the table

another navy fan wrote:

What about Bryan Clay? He is in the meet and he hasnt posted a decathlon score since 5/2010. Isn't that outside the qualifying window?

I asked this question quite a few times. However if you go to the competition rules book for the trials it is clearly stated that he gets in as the defending Olympic Gold Medalist. That provision (and there are a few others, I think WC Gold Medalists also get in) is not on the main website but it is there and plainly spelled out in black and white.

bangalangadanga wrote:

maybe a 3:37 coupled with a 14:10 --> 13:49 (uneven pacing due to rabbiting duties) improvement? What do you want from me? Alan Webb brings a certain... what the french call... i don't know what... to the table

I don't want anything from you. But instead of trying to come up with all sorts of fuzzy, ambiguous, and convoluted justification, let's just say his presence brings some additional interest and intrigue to the race for the fans.

bangalangadanga wrote:

maybe a 3:37 coupled with a 14:10 --> 13:49 (uneven pacing due to rabbiting duties) improvement?

That's the Ventolin qualifier. The great thing is that by applying various "adjustments" to my PR, I can also qualify for the trials in the 1500.

If Webb is so fit in the 5k right now, why don't they just set up a race for him, say this afternoon. He can tempo his 13:30, and then run in the trials.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

another navy fan wrote:

What about Bryan Clay? He is in the meet and he hasnt posted a decathlon score since 5/2010. Isn't that outside the qualifying window?

I asked this question quite a few times. However if you go to the competition rules book for the trials it is clearly stated that he gets in as the defending Olympic Gold Medalist. That provision (and there are a few others, I think WC Gold Medalists also get in) is not on the main website but it is there and plainly spelled out in black and white.

This is correct. I wish they would post ALL of the qualifying information right on the meet website.

There already are a bunch of exemptions for Nationals/OTs:

RULE 8

AUTOMATIC QUALIFICATION

Automatic qualification, as listed in this section, shall not abrogate any entry requirements other than the qualifying requirements for a championship. Any athlete who attains any of the following shall be afforded automatic qualification into a USA Indoor, Outdoor, Race Walking or Marathon Championship or USA Olympic Team Selection in the same event in which the performance was attained:

1. Track and Field.

(a) During the current or four previous calendar years, earned an individual

medal in track and field in an Olympic Games or in an IAAF World Indoor or Outdoor Championship.

(b) Is the reigning USA Indoor or Outdoor champion.

(c) Has a World or Olympic ‘A’ Standard that would apply to the current championship team selection.

(d) Finish as one of the top three at the preceding year’s corresponding national championship (Indoor qualifies for Indoor, Outdoor qualifies for

Outdoor).

I don't think they should let Alan Webb in the 5k. If you're good enough to be a contender to make the team, you should not have any problem hitting a qualifying mark in the lengthy qualifying window. Don't switch events at the last minute, not qualify and expect to be let in.

I'm tired of the inconsistent BS and politics that goes on with this stuff. Make your rules and stick to them. If you don't like the rules, change the rules, don't keep granting exceptions to them, then it just comes down to how much John Chaplin likes you instead of being fair.

German Fernandes ran 1,500's on back to back nights to qualify. Webb could have ran the 5,000 he was scheduled to run last weekend if he really wanted to get in. I am all for past champions getting in and would even think Olympic team members from the prior games could be given a pass but only in the event they participated in!

No, they shouldn't let him in. There are way too many better qualified 5000 runners ahead of him.

I really want to see Webb do well and I'll be rooting for him in the 1500 but rules are rules and he hasn't done what it takes to make the 5000 trials.

3:37.26 = 13:26 high = Trevor v. Alan for 24th spot = Alan should be preference based on circumstances and past performance.

qualifiers wrote:

3:37.26 = 13:26 high = Trevor v. Alan for 24th spot = Alan should be preference based on circumstances and past performance.

Should we allow Ventolin^3 qualifiers in all of the events?

logical inconsistency wrote:

Ok, suppose Lagat went out and ran the steeple earlier in the year on the whim and recorded a time of 8:50. Now he decides he wants to compete in the trial in this event. Wouldn't reasons 5 and 6 in your post (above) also apply?

Yet I think most posters calling for Webb to be allowed in the 5K would not want Lagat admitted in similar circumstances. It just seems like if you open up events to athletes in which they haven't met the qualifying standards based on past performance or potential to compete it could make a shambles of the whole process.

I don't know if anybody else has responded to this but I would LOVE to see Lagat in the steeple! Can you imagine how that might change the dynamics of the race? Who knows what he could run. So I would be all for letting him in the race in that situation, and I bet most of the people arguing to let Webb in the 5K would agree.

The 2012 US Olympic trials standards were as follows for the marathon at various distances, so why not? The 10000m is proportionally less distance to the marathon as compared to the 1500m to the 5000m.

Marathon: 2:19:00

Half-Marathon: 1:05:00

10,000m: 28:30.00

qualifiers wrote:

The 2012 US Olympic trials standards were as follows for the marathon at various distances, so why not? The 10000m is proportionally less distance to the marathon as compared to the 1500m to the 5000m.

Marathon: 2:19:00

Half-Marathon: 1:05:00

10,000m: 28:30.00

I don't think that is a good rule, but if it is the rule for everybody, then OK. If Alan Webb is allowed into the 5000m trials off of his 1500m time, then shouldn't everybody with a faster time be allowed in?

dean moriarty wrote:

Of course! Let the former Olympians and record holders run whatever they want. Just expand the field by one so he doesn't bump anyone.

agree

If he gets in, he is only getting a SHOT at the Olympic team, but he is no lock. The system would still choose the top 3. I recall a lot of people upset about Adam Goucher getting into the 10k last time without qualifying time. He did pretty well, but did not make the team. One big difference between these two is that Goucher had made the WC final in the 5k the previous year. Webb has not made a US team since 2007.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Marketing reasons is no way to select an Olympic team, including the participants in the trials.

I agree. Good thing no one is proposing this. We're talking about letting him into the trials, not the Olympic team.

He is an American record holder, a multiple-time former champion, and he has recently demonstrated sufficient fitness to be reasonably competitive in the race. I have no problem with him being let in, even over some other guys. Yes I understand that those guys may be upset.

I second this perspective. We all know it's corrupt and bureaucratic, so it would be nice to see somebody with some spine stand up against this entitled behavior from the Nike, Oregon, Salazar, (now) Webb characters of the world. If they make exceptions like this then they should just do away with most of the qualifying "standards" and just let a committee choose subjectively based on whatever minimum standards they keep.

pjb wrote:

He is an American record holder, a multiple-time former champion, and he has recently demonstrated sufficient fitness to be reasonably competitive in the race.

No he hasn't. We have a set way to "demonstrate sufficient fitness to be reasonably competitive in the race." You do that by running a qualifying time. Alan has not done that.

should they? yes!