Should USATF Let Webb into the OT 5000?

On what basis do you think Webb has a very good chance at making the team at 5000m.

formulaic wrote:

Why not let him in. He'll be way off the pace, so he won't interfere with anyone.

If they let him in, why would he run off the pace? He'd try and stick his nose in there and hope to hold on, not try and come back as others fade. Then if he is up in front, who knows what could happen in the form a trip or fall. What if he fell and took out someone?

I say let him in. They're not selecting him for the Olympic Team. They're simply giving him a chance to compete for a spot. I don't have a problem with that at all. Especially for a runner with Alan's credentials. Common sense will tell you that there will be a number of legit qualifiers in the 5k field who have less of a shot at top 3 than Alan Webb. His strength has always been his, well, strength. He has shown great ability in the past when he moves up to a longer distance, and this year I believe his fitness is not in question. He simply lacks that extra gear to close fast. That 13:49 a while back isn't really a good indicator of his 5k fitness.

I'm not saying he has a good chance of top 3 and the A standard. But I think he has just as good a chance, if not better, than half the guys in the field.

The problem is that the last pending qualification on the status of entries page before Webbs 13:49 is 13:43. 11 guys in the NCAA ran between those times this past spring. How many post collegiate guys ran between those times? I have no idea. I think if Webb is aloud to petition to get in so should those guys.

The same issue came up with Goucher a few years back when they skipped over a few other folks to admit Goucher into the 10k after he bombed the 5k.

The one thing about this sport is that it is fair. At least until you start adding politics and back scratching. I like Webb and I wish him well and he has been great for the sport but you know what he didnt hit a single damn time.

Hit the Euro circuit and start training for Moscow 2013.

old coach man wrote:

The problem is that the last pending qualification on the status of entries page before Webbs 13:49 is 13:43. 11 guys in the NCAA ran between those times this past spring. How many post collegiate guys ran between those times? I have no idea. I think if Webb is allowed to petition to get in so should those guys.

The same issue came up with Goucher a few years back when they skipped over a few other folks to admit Goucher into the 10k after he bombed the 5k.

The one thing about this sport is that it is fair. At least until you start adding politics and back scratching. I like Webb and I wish him well and he has been great for the sport but you know what he didnt hit a single damn time.

Hit the Euro circuit and start training for Moscow 2013.

i kinda like running wrote:

I say let him in. They're not selecting him for the Olympic Team. They're simply giving him a chance to compete for a spot. I don't have a problem with that at all. Especially for a runner with Alan's credentials.

When is the last time Alan ran the Olympic Trials standard in the 5000m? When is the last time he ran the Olympic A standard in the 5000m? What exactly are his credentials that should allow him to leapfrog into the field? Are we still counting his credentials from 2004-2005?

Let him try to get the A in the 1500m split of the 5k at the trials.

Azaleas wrote:

Nobody with the Trials A standard would get bumped, so I don't have much of a problem with letting him in. Yeah, it sucks if you'd have been the last person to make it, but come on. You'd be the last person to make it, not a real contender.

Webb's not a real contender., So by your logic he'd only be the last person to make it, not a real contender.

The announced procedure for qualifying didn't provide an exception for Alan Webb. If he wanted to run in the trials 5,000 he should have run faster.

kartelite wrote:

The 13:49 will not be getting him in, it's the 1:43/3:30/3:46 etc. doing that.

Well, as long as we are going on past results why not let Bob Kennedy run? How far back should we go in considering times from past years?

I think USATF would want Alan Webb running the 1500m, simply to keep a big name in the most TV-friendly distance event. Why waste him on a slower, longer race with commercial breaks?

I wanna see Webb smoke the boyz in the 5000

Dammit, if he hasn't figured it out by now...no way..shouldn't even be a question.

Remember Goucher in 2008? They let him in the 10k on a petition. There was a big controversy because some 28:40 guy got bumped. But Goucher was fairly competitive and finished 7th.

They gave it to him because he was a past US champion and past Olympian.

categorically wrote:

Remember Goucher in 2008? They let him in the 10k on a petition. There was a big controversy because some 28:40 guy got bumped. But Goucher was fairly competitive and finished 7th.

They gave it to him because he was a past US champion and past Olympian.

He ran his 5K pr only 2 years before (and finished 6th in World XC). He also made the WC final in the 5K only 9 months before the U.S. trials in 2008 so it was easier to make the case that he was still competitive with top U.S. runners.

If they are going to make exceptions on past performances it seems like there should be some standards regarding time elapsed.

Why would we want to do something that makes our sport more interesting? That's not what we do around here.

YES!

1. It has been done before and I think the rules allow it.

2. The USATF has to start making marketabilty one of its top priorities and Webb is an intriging draw.

3. There is a very big difference between putting someone on the team and providing an opportunity to compete.

4. It can be accomplished by not dissadvantaging another desering athlete by putting everyone in who earned their way and simply adding one person.

5. Webb will not be outclassed or dilute the quality of the races becasue he is w/o a doubt good enough to compete with most of the athletes who met the standard.

6. Webb is a mutiple times national champion and he deserves to be thrown a bone.

Mistakes were made wrote:

categorically wrote:

Remember Goucher in 2008? They let him in the 10k on a petition. There was a big controversy because some 28:40 guy got bumped. But Goucher was fairly competitive and finished 7th.

They gave it to him because he was a past US champion and past Olympian.

He ran his 5K pr only 2 years before (and finished 6th in World XC). He also made the WC final in the 5K only 9 months before the U.S. trials in 2008 so it was easier to make the case that he was still competitive with top U.S. runners.

If they are going to make exceptions on past performances it seems like there should be some standards regarding time elapsed.

It wasn't some 28:40 guy that got bumped. It was the fact that Goucher was #32 on the list and they wanted a field of 24. So in the end guys #25 through 31 didnt get a chance and got completely skipped over. In the end they had a field of 25 and made an exception and let #32 in. If you were 25 through 31 and pending and you got skipped over you would be pissed. And they were pissed.

Now the thing with the 5k is that Webb is 38 on the list. If they want a field of 24 they are going to be pissing off a ton of people.

Sure, if Kennedy demonstrated Trials A qualifier fitness this year by running 3:37 as Webb has, then by all means let Kennedy into the 5000m.Webb also beat Rupp in a road 5k (13:37?) 18 months ago. My informed opinion is that Webb will be more competitive at 5000m this point in his career than at 1500m. Webb can run 13:20 or faster at the Trials.

Mistakes were made wrote:

kartelite wrote:

The 13:49 will not be getting him in, it's the 1:43/3:30/3:46 etc. doing that.

Well, as long as we are going on past results why not let Bob Kennedy run? How far back should we go in considering times from past years?

he's got a 13:10 on the resume and has been training very well; in addition, he has run 3:37 this year and that puts him near the front of the 5000m field. if he finally runs a race commensurate with his shape, he'll embarrass quite a number of runners in the field, particularly in a typically slow race to 4k.