Sagarin wrote:
Many former elite runners tend to age prematurely as well.
That probably has more to do with sun exposure than running.
Sagarin wrote:
Many former elite runners tend to age prematurely as well.
That probably has more to do with sun exposure than running.
Alberto Salazar.
He even wrote a book about it.
The heart is a muscle and for many of those who train a lot, especially during their late teens and early twenties, the heart will grow. Similar to people who are obese or generally unhealthy. Depending upon which part of the heart muscle grows it will restrict blood flow to arteries or hinder valves. This is how an enlarged heart will kill an endurance athlete the same way it will kill someone who is unhealthy.
Avocado's Number wrote:
I haven't had a chance to review it yet, but this article has been getting a lot of attention in the last week or two:
http://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(12)00473-9/fulltext
I think that runners need to be open to the possibility that the science in this area may not be as favorable to the sport as many of us would like to believe.
Why would running be different than any other sport? I think this type of research will gain more traction.
I haven't looked at this study in particular, but they usually don't have a significant sample size for high mileage runners. How many guys in the entire country are running 90+ miles a week? Maybe 10,000? Probably less. So you get studies looking at middle aged guys running 60 mpw as the top group.
Avocado's Number wrote:
I haven't had a chance to review it yet, but this article has been getting a lot of attention in the last week or two:
http://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(12)00473-9/fulltext
I think that runners need to be open to the possibility that the science in this area may not be as favorable to the sport as many of us would like to believe.
Thanks for posting this article. (The link is broken but it can be cut and pasted.)
Within the article itself is this comment.
People who exercise regularly have markedly lower rates of disability and a mean life expectancy that is 7 years longer than that of their physically inactive contemporaries.
What this research seems to say is that some people are predisposed genetically to heart damage that could be caused by extreme exercise. For everyone else, the pros outweigh the cons. What we don't know is how many extreme exercisers might be adversely affected? 1 out of 100? 1 out of 3? 1 out of 10,000? It's difficult to draw any conclusions until we can define the range of elevated risk.
Ventura County Jail wrote:
People with dangerous arrhythmias like Landreth and Shea are the only ones who died early because of running. Drenth is thought to be drug related by AW insiders.
Drenth had arhythmia.
Not sure who you are, bro, but you'd better back up your claims about Drenth. He was clean as anyone, and the nicest guy you'd ever meet. There's nothing to suggest drug use at all, man. Your speculation is BS.
Care to list your AW insiders? Sevene? Sure dude, sure. A*Hole.
I saw Jim Fixx mentioned early in this thread. I remember when he died. Lots of people would make comments to me about his death...and running being bad for you. My recollection is that before taking up running at around the age of 38, he was an editor at Time Magazine (maybe?)...smoked several packs of cigarettes a day, and had a history of heart disease. He ignored the advice of friends, like George Sheehan and Ken Cooper (I think)...to have testing done that might have uncovered his heart disease. Still, he had a tremendous impact on getting people in this country up and moving. Very sad that he didn't take their advice and possibly lived a lot longer.
Add Andy Palmer.
I have asked a number of people at RT and RW to look into this and perhaps write something, but nothing has come of it. It would stand to reason that runners who train excessively may be doing damage.
I knew Jeff Drenth and I knew Jim Fixx. I worked for Ron Clarke. You guys are way off base on them.
Arthur Lydiard - the great advocate of aerobic training in history but he was 87.
Linsanity wrote:
Alberto Salazar.
He even wrote a book about it.
I was going to say the same..but the OP is looking at those who died from a heart attack.
Alberto is still alive and kicking.
He was dead for 14 mins, no?
In all seriousness, he did a lot of research in exactly the type of issues the OP is asking about.
Read the book.
fisky wrote:
What this research seems to say is that some people are predisposed genetically to heart damage that could be caused by extreme exercise. For everyone else, the pros outweigh the cons. What we don't know is how many extreme exercisers might be adversely affected? 1 out of 100? 1 out of 3? 1 out of 10,000? It's difficult to draw any conclusions until we can define the range of elevated risk.
What is the marginal benefit of extreme endurance exercise +10hrs/week running, +20hrs swimming/biking etc. vs 5hrs/running or 8-10hrs swimming/biking? Very little I would imagine, and with an increased risk of causing damage, esp for older athletes.
The article highlighted a right ventricle event that occurs in extreme endurance exercise. As a one-off, the person recovers. However repeatedly subjecting your heart to this injury has long-term effects, in particular for athletes >50.
If you repeatedly pull your hamstring during your running career, it will be weaker for the remainder of your life. Why would cardiac muscle be any different? It is possible to damage it through excessive exercise, and the effects are cumulative - this is what the study is claiming.
Excellent health for older people can be had from jogging 30 minutes/day. You do not need to be Ed Whitlock to be a happy healthy 80yr old. Indeed, is Ed that much more fit than the 80 yr old who runs 10k in 60? I'd reckon not.
More =/= Better, and this applies to endurance training as well.
kang6789 wrote:
Studies in the area are further confounded by tons of variables not directly related to running.
For example, there is an elevated prevalence of disordered eating habits among endurance athletes. Disordered eating habits can lead to death. Thus, studies which don't rigorously adjust for confounding variables may wrongly attribute excess deaths in endurance athletes to exercise, when in reality other factors, such as disordered eating, are the causative agents.
Wouldn't the excess exercise likely lead to an increase in this disordered eating? It's tough to eat the ideal 5-6 smaller meals every day when your body is desperate for food after a 10-miler.
I think we need to look into all aspects of the sport, including the lifestyle that comes with it.
Most of the people that hit their hundredth birthday are those who had a stress free life. Not many of them are elite athletes.
My post earlier about Jim Fixx should have said 'family history' of heart disease. Here's a relevant 1984 article concerning his death:
genetics and diet. do not hear much from kenya or ethiopia regarding heart issues in their athletes inc. retired types. Alcohol or malaria yes, heart issues no.
Diet and stress play a significant factor. Not to mention all of the additive crap approved by the FDA. How does this pass here, but other countries will not accept these products from the USA.
Well in 1983 267 Americans ran sub 2:20. In 2007 only 57 did. In contrast in 1983 4 Kenyans on record ran sub 2:20. In 2007 580 Kenyans ran sub 2:20. Maybe we should be more concerned with better preparing our youth to be able to run sub 2:20 (ie/ training, nutrition, recovery, altitude, mentality).
Maybe you can do a study on whether any of these Kenyans are dying of heart attacks and if not study their lifestyles. However, if you were to study these lifestyles, you would find no American would live that way since we are lazy, spoiled wimps.
One more consideration about any of the heart attacks of athletes who died during that boom would be EPO. That was before EPO was illegal in 1986. EPO began being used in 1972. Look at all the cyclists who died in Belgium from too much EPO.
If your question is are these athletes dying from overtraining? You are most likely out to lunch. I would consider the American Diet or EPO to be more of a probable cause than any overtraining.
Azaleas wrote:
I think there has been some discussion about long term distance running causing arrythmias, though. There was a threads on here about it at some point.
Yes, I actually have a printed copy of a medical study done on Atrial Fibrulation and it included a fair sampling of elite distance runners.
The study had a mixed conclusion. Where it found that the incidence of artial fibrulation due to enlargement of the left atrium was much more pronounced in elite distance runners than among the general population, it also cited that the ability of the atrium to enlarge may have been one of the factors that allowed the runners to become elite in the first place. Kind of a mixed blessing.
Good post Better Yet. I hasve learned from this interesting thread.
Most of us are not 2:20 marathoners. For a long time now, I have been keeping an eye on long time very hard trainers who raced marathons before 1980 and and continued afterward. Most on my lists raced in very high temperatures and often with no water. Many have Atrial Fibrillation or other arrhythmia problems (Over 18 of them on my list) and only a couple have died of heart attacks At least 7 have or had Parkinson's Disease and 4 had or have Alzheimer's Disease. Cancer has also taken others. I have had a cardioversion to correct an atrial flutter problem. I have been having Sunday Breakfast with the same group of competitive marathoners (mostly in their age groups) since 1971. We seem to be aging about 10 years more slowly than non-runners. Although 2 do not attend any longer, 3 from our group are now 90!