And I did too. But I also would not rule out pacing and PEDS.
AND money can well lead not just to improved performances but also to attempts at cheating one's way to those improved performances and their rewards.
And I did too. But I also would not rule out pacing and PEDS.
AND money can well lead not just to improved performances but also to attempts at cheating one's way to those improved performances and their rewards.
HRE wrote:
And I did too. But I also would not rule out pacing and PEDS.
AND money can well lead not just to improved performances but also to attempts at cheating one's way to those improved performances and their rewards.
I d think there is some competition between the elite African runners, especially if there is money envolved. That would lead to cheating in my opinion. I believe there is a big difference between finishing first and tenth in a marathon when we are talking about money.
Runthedistance wrote:
98% of them don't dope, the 2% comprise of those who are misinform, ignorance, honest mistakes and somebody like Asiago who is irrelevant in the Kenyan running scene trying to ruin it for everybody else.
Honest mistakes? You mean 'oops I accidently slipped and fell on this EPO needle that I accidently purchased from the backroom of a high street pharmacy in Nairobi?'
Misinformed? You mean 'oops, I didn't realise this EPO needle that I purchased in good faith from the back room of a high street pharmacy was illegal due to my simple upbringing in a shack?'
NAIROBI, Kenya, May 23 – Athletics Kenya (AK) has lashed out at allegations made by a German TV reporter who claimed Kenya distance runners use blood doping to boost their performances.
At a press briefing on Wednesday, AK chair, Isaiah Kiplagat called on anyone with proof to come forward and take the matter to relevant authorities.
The federation boss was reacting to a report filed on Saturday by renowned sports journalist Hajo Seppelt who claims he spent time in various parts of the country where he posed as an undercover sports agent.
He reportedly and found out that doping is rife not only amongst Kenyan middle and long distance runners and but even with some of the foreign athletes who have been training in the famous high altitude area of Iten.
“This story depicts Kenya as a country that uses to use drugs to enhance performances. I want to assure that 99 percent of our athletes win cleanly.
“We in AK are not aware of any athlete who has used drugs and those found have been punished according to IAAF rules,” he charged.
He added: “We ask this journalist to come forward and present the details since we have exposed all our athletes found cheating and this is in the public domain.”
NO, I think it goes like this, Oooops, I have been having sex and not getting pregnant yet, I should go see a doctor for help and the doctor prescribes Clomiphene and wow, I am pregnant, yeeeeeee. A baby boy or girl is born and a happy family is formed. Side effects? who cares.
So not only is Kenya home to the world's most genetically gifted distance runners, it is also home to most genetically gifted honest people. No where else in the world do we have a such a population of simple honest folk who always tell the truth and never cheat at anything. I doubt they use even recreational drugs. Money means nothing to them and it's all about the sport (and simple honesty). Wow, what a garden of Eden they have. Since they're so honest and sincere, we should get one to be our president!
wash yourself in sarcasm because you need it, what else can you do.
German Native wrote:
1. Hajo Seppelt is very quick with allegations. He made comments against German runners, cyclists etc....not all of that was justified. What's more, he comes over as a guy that is trying to catch athletes for the sake of his own merits, not for the good in the sport. But maybe that's just me.
2. ARD is highly respectable news, except for sports. They lost alle their credibility when they sponsored Team Telekom cycling team claiming they didn't know anything about the doping that was going on only to run a smear campaign against them after it came out they were doping.
3. So there is a doctor in Kenya that is willing to do blood transfusions - what for? Most likely foreign (read: European/US) runners that train there for a period of time. The Kenyans live there year round and only fly out for events.
4. Not saying doping doesn't exist there but this doesn't prove anything.
so he was able to buy EPO but isn't EPO detectable in blood anyways?
Joetech wrote:
so he was able to buy EPO but isn't EPO detectable in blood anyways?
Yes. But the time it remains detectable are far shorter than the time the benefits last.
Oh, and Kenyans don't get blood tested out of competition. We've already had this discussion elsewhere.
But the discussion is always incomplete. Isn't EPO detectable in urine too?
Do Kenyans get tested differently from other athletes of other nations?
How can we put this in perspective?
It's not like Kenyans winning is a big secret. If the average "letsrunner" is smart enough to figure it out, maybe WADA is too.
Lots of hypotheticals in this thread. Anyone got any real facts that could support fresh "widespread doping" allegations by German journalist?
Kenyans are not hiding, they are willing to be tested anytime, anywhere, anyhow.
January-December 2010, The number to the right is the corresponding number of tets for each athlete.
Kenyans were the most tested of all countries axcept maybe the US.
This is testing in general, I do not know how many blood tests were done but this shows that Kenyans are available to be tested contrary to some believe that they cannot be found.
kipkorir david 4
Kiplagat abraham 1-3
Kiplagat edna 1-3
Kiplagat richard 1-3
Kiplagat florence 4+
Kiprop asbel 1-3
Kiprop wilson 1-3
Kipruto vincent 1-3
Kipruto brimin 4+
Kiptoo mark 4
Kipyego sally 1-3
Kipyego bernard 4
Kirong duncan 4
Kirui purity 1-3
Kirui abel 4+
Kirwa gilbert 1-3
Kisorio mathew 1-3
Kitwara samson 4+
Kivuva jackson 1-3
Koech paul 1-3
Kombich ismael 1-3
Komen daniel 1-3
Komon leonard 1-3
Korikwian pauline 1-3
Kwambai james 4+
Lalang boaz 1-3
Langat nany 1-3
Machariny hosea 1-3
Masai dennis 1-3
Masai moses 4
Masai linet 4+
Mateelong richard 4
Mathathi martin 1-3
Mbugua bernard 1-3
Mosop moses 1-3
Muriuki margaret 1-3
Musyoki patrick 1-3
Muthati sammy 1-3
Mutai emmanuel 4+
Ndambiri josphat 1-3
Ndereba catherine 1-3
Bungei wilfred 1-3
Busienei J janet 1-3
Chebet emily 1-3
Chemweno gladies 1-3
Chenonge ines 1-3
Chepkok vincent 4+
Chepkurui lineth 1-3
Chepseba nixon 1-3
Cherono mercy 1-3
Cheruiyot vivian 1-3
Cheruiyot robert 1-3
Cheywa milcah 1-3
Choge augustine 4+
Ebuya joseph 4
Jelimo pamela 4+
Kamene lucia 1-3
Keitany haron 4+
Keitany mary 4+
Kemboi john 1-3
Kemboi nicholas 1-3
Kemboi ezekiel 4+
Kibet sylvia 4+
Kibiwot viola 4+
Kigen moses 1-3
Kipchoge eliud 4+
Kipkemoi gladys 4
Kipkoech john 1-3
Kipkoech josphat 1-3
Ndiku jonathan 1-3
Ngatuny gedion 4
Ngeiywo nelly 1-3
Nyangau ruth 1-3
Rono geoffrey 4
Rotich lucas 4+
Rudisha david 4+
Salel daniel 1-3
Soi edwin 1-3
Tanui paul 1-3
Tanui biwott 4
Wanjiru ann 1-3
Wanjiru samuel 1-3
Yego alfred 1-3
Yegon gilbert 4
Read more:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4591442&page=2#ixzz1vvaNnfRt
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The names with + had blood tests
Answer:-Yes Epo is detectable in urine and it is just as good as blood test for epo.Blood test is done to screen for epo (high hematocrit, abnormal profile). If blood profile is abnormal they test for Epo in urine (the epo test is expensive).In fact the urine test for epo is the only one which can result in suspension, noone is judged for abnormal blood (this is how it go to be else there would be numerous false positives).-Kenyans are of course not tested differently than anyone else. And the top athletes is in the blood passport system.-How can we put this in perspective?It doesnt mean very much. Epo has such a short half-life (the stuff is out of the body in hours, while the effect last for several weeks) that testing positive is very hard if you are careful.Also the blood passport system is even easier to cheat, loading slowly by use of microdoses, if you dont have time, by use of plasma expanders.-Kenyans does not win because of doping. The playing ground at the very top is likely quite fair, everyone is on blood enhancement.-The evidence in this thread is that a guy in a supplement shop in Nairobi, with alot of pictures of kenyan runners in the storeroom, fixed EPO in short time. The reporter states that he was pointed to this shop pretending he was an agent.So unless everything is a play, which i find unlikely, there is a market for EPO in sports in kenya. Which should not be a surprise to anyone that has ever been involved in elite sports. Who else would buy EPO in Kenya outside the hospitals except for elite runners?
rekrunner wrote:
But the discussion is always incomplete. Isn't EPO detectable in urine too?
Do Kenyans get tested differently from other athletes of other nations?
How can we put this in perspective?
It's not like Kenyans winning is a big secret. If the average "letsrunner" is smart enough to figure it out, maybe WADA is too.
Lots of hypotheticals in this thread. Anyone got any real facts that could support fresh "widespread doping" allegations by German journalist?
But the vast majority of blood tests done by the IAAF are for blood parameters only.
They're not actually testing for anything.
Probably so they can give a little warning if anything starts to show.
sdfgfdrfdfd wrote:
http://www.starafrica.com/en/more-sports/detail-news/view/athletics-kenya-confirm-use-of-banned-su-254355.html?fb_comment_id=fbc_213881115410055_804877_214143118717188#f381dd3e5
Another article on this subject with absolutely nothing in it!
The story doesnt match the quotes and it has no evidence of good or bad practice. Just conjecture and guess work again,
It mentions Kapsabet and Iten but not in any particular context. Does that mean that is where the athletes are (thisis hardly news) or that that is wherre the doctors are working? Anyone who has been to Iten will know how unlikely that is - unless the doctors are bringing mobile clinics directly to the athletes involved? Certainly there is no permenant facility in Iten with the capability to pull this off - in Eldoret maybe but not Iten.
I wonder when we will get something meaningful out of this story as so far there is no substance whatsoever (not to say there isnt something in it but so far the stories have given absolutely nothing!)
trollism wrote:
Probably so they can give a little warning if anything starts to show.
Whatever happend to John Ngugi?
QUOTES FROM kENYAN MEDIA SUGGEST THAT THE AK CHAIR IS RATHER SHEEPISHLY ACCEPTING THAT THERE IS TRUTH IN IT
AK is deliberately deflecting pressure from the organization, training camps, and athletes, and scapegoating the doctors. Despite an apparently thorough investigation, only doctors will be arrested, with no sanctions handed out.
The new era of doping control will not rely on drug tests. The biggest busts have come from federal investigations, and found hard evidence: blood in labs, labeled vials, etc. There should be little confidence in negative drugs test results. Here, AK is missing an opportunity to do just that. Investigate the clients of these doctors. Look at who set up appointments, or paid for them.
AK is getting out of this easily