Mr. Renato Canova: Could You Please Answer a Question About Effective Ways to Improve the Lactate Threshold?

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Rift Runner

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14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: Racer1

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I'll take the liberty of answering question 12 on logistics / security. Renato can chip in with specifics of getting to his training group.

Fly to Nairobi - Jomo Kenyatta International Airport. Many nationalities can buy a 1 month toursit visa on arrival. Check current details on the US or British Govt websites. http://www.fco.gov.uk is a good start. Make sure you have got all your inoculations up to date, a supply of malaria tablets (although i dont use them at altitude anymore) and your own medical kit with sterilised needles. Healthcare is available but you dont want to have to rely on it up country. Get good travel insurance with at least 5million USD of medical cover including repatriation cover.

Your first time in Nairobi you should get someone to meet you at the airport unless you are an experienced africa traveller. If you dont know someone then book a reputable hotel in advance and get a taxi. Check the current price so you dont get fleeced and take a licenced cab. They are pretty good from the airport. Spend a day in nairobi getting your bearings in daylight. I wouldnt advise trying to run though. Get a decent guide book with maps so that you can find bus stations etc.

From Nairobi you have three main travel options.
1. Travel with someone you know by private car
2. Travel by bus - Kenya Bus, Akamba and others run several buses a day from Nairobi to Eldoret.
3. Matatu (a minibus taxi) not recommended on long journeys as they have a poor safety record. The bus stations are easy to get to and pretty safe by african standards. Tickets can be bought on the day for about 5 USD. Enbglish is widely spoken

From Eldoret you will need to get a matatu to Iten (about 45 mins and 2 USD max). They go from the junction of the main road with the Iten Road. You could just pitch up in Iten and get dropped at the High Altitude camp run by Lornah Kiplagat. Its about 25USD a day. From there you can find who is training and when. Just ask around.

Other training camps in range of Eldoret are at Kaptagat. Camps change locations fairly frequently.

Internet is everywhere and very affordable if a bit slow outside nairobi. mobile phones - if you have a GSM phone you can by a kenyan pay as you go sim card for less than USD

Security: you accept a higher level of risk in everything you do - travel, food, personal safety. But with basic precautions it should be no more dangerous than inner cities in north america or western europe. So the precautions are: be aware that your first 48 hours is your highest risk because you stand out, dont look rich - so no jewelry or flash clothes, dont go out at night, make friends with kenyans. Ultimately this gives you a 99% chance of being OK. People like Ondoro and Paul were specifically targetted because of their known wealth. But then rich guys in nice cars get shot at and robbed in our countries too.

To enjoy a trip to kenya you have to appreciate that things move much slower than in the west, 'arrangements' can change at the last minute, time keeping is poor by our standards. If you are in western mindset you will get quickly frustrated. Chill out, get into the pace of life and live like a kenyan.

On a running note: take it easy until you get the measure of the altitude.

Make friends, stay chilled and you will have a great time. And remember its africa and things can change very fast so never get complacent.

This is starting to turn into a guide book so i'll shut up now.

Rift Runner
Renato Canova

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: sub 13

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In a normal periodization, we have a FUNDAMENTAL PERIOD lasting (for an athlete not having cross as specific target) from November to March (all winter). We can use NOV as General or Introductive Period. In the first 4 weeks of training we can use a weekly microcycle, having the goal to increase your basic qualities, for being ready to start the real training in December. This is a very simple microcycle for introductive period :

MON

a) 1 hr moderate run (for ex., for an athlete able running 3:50 / 14:30 / 30:00, about 6:00 a mile). Every week you can add 10min (1h10 - 1h20 - 1h30)

b) Warm-up + 4 easy circuits (only 300m climbing, with 4x60m sprint at 80% connected by 10 squat-jumps, 30m skipping, 30m bounding). Every week you can add 10m to the sprints (70m - 80m - 90m)

TUE

a) 30 min easy + 5 times 4 min fast (at 3:00 pace per km) rec. 3 min easy (at 4:00 pace). Every week add 1 min to the tests, with same recovery of 3 min easy (5 x 5:00 - 5 x 6:00 - 5 x 7:00)

b) 40 min easy regeneration

WED

a) 30 min easy + technical exercises :
* 5 times 30 sec. skipping fast with short strides (going to 6 - 7 - 8 times during the following weeks)
* 5 times 30m heels-to-buttocks (6-7-8 times foll. weeks)
* 5 times 50m running with very high knees (6-7-8 times)
* 5 times 30m bounding (6-7-8 times)

b) 50 min easy regeneration

THU

a) 30 min easy + 4 km continuous running uphill (gradient about 5%). Every week add 1 km at the same pace for 5/10km runners, try running faster 5 sec per km if miler.

b) 1 hr with short variations of speed. Short variations last from 30.0 to 45.0, trying to use a good frequency. Recovery is about 2:00 / 2:30, running at a basic speed of 4:00 / 3:50 per km. Normally I use one variations inside every 3 min of run.

FRI

a) 1 hr 20 at 3:45 per km (every week running faster of 5.0 per km : 3:40 - 3:35 - 3:30)

b) 40 min easy regeneration + technical exercises like Wed

SAT

a) 30 min easy + 8 km (if miler) or 12 km (if long runner) fast, increasing speed every 4 km (miler : 13:00 at 3:15 + 12:40 at 3:10) (long runner : 13:20 + 13:00 + 12:40). Every week you must run 2.5 sec. faster per km : 12:50+12:30 - 12:40+12:20 - 12:30+12:10 = 24:40 average 3:05 at the end of the period. The same for 12 km.

b) 40 in easy regeneration

SUN

Long run at personal sensation, adding 5 min every week :
from 1h20 to 1h40 for milers, from 1h30 to 2h (adding in this case 10 min every week) for 5/10 km runners.

This is an example of training for INTRODUCTIVE PERIOD, where we have 2 workouts of technical exercises, 1 circuit climbing, 1 long fartlek, 1 continuous run uphill, 1 fast progressive long run, 1 short fartlek, and a good general volume. At the end of the period, the athlete can run, per week, from 170 to 200 km (110 to 125 miles)
thanks

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: Rift Runner

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Rift Runner - thanks for the great info.
Steeper Hills

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: Rift Runner

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Rift Runner, very helpful info.

Are you African?

I forgot to ask about malaria; that is another big worry. I have heard that Western immune deficiencies are severe enough in cases so that simply contacting the skin with water from certain lakes can trigger a malaria attack.

It still sounds somewhat logistically difficult to arrange all this. I think I had better get faster in America and then, hopefully if and when I am really good, THEN go to Kenya.

Another horror story I read about (although it was in Tanzania, I believe) was the end note to Toby Tanser's "Train HArd, Win Easy, the Kenyan Way."

That is easily the most horrific robbery/attempted murder I have ever read about in Africa.
Steeper Hills

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: Renato Canova

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This is an example of training for INTRODUCTIVE PERIOD, where we have 2 workouts of technical exercises, 1 circuit climbing, 1 long fartlek, 1 continuous run uphill, 1 fast progressive long run, 1 short fartlek, and a good general volume. At the end of the period, the athlete can run, per week, from 170 to 200 km (110 to 125 miles)

Granted, you are surely speaking of your world class Kenyan athletes, but I can guess the most part of serious runners are not so fast even with good effort put forth in training. IS it really possible to recover well with 2 sessions of technique work, a circuit, 2 fartleks, a long threshold run, and an uphill session all within a week of high mileage (at altitude)?

This seems very tough indeed, even for a Kenyan but especially for someone working to get faster but not yet at 13:00 for 5,000m or whatever it is for this level. Even if the training were adjusted, this is nearly 7 days of moderate to hard intensity every day, and just for an "inroductive" period! If this is introductive, what are the harder periods? (!)

Renato Canova wrote:

Regarding the work that I described for John Korir, the difference between sprints uphill and "ramps" (or steep slope) is in the gradient (about 10% for sprints and circuits, and 30% or more for ramps). Also the mean is different : we use circuits for STRENGTH ENDURANCE, sprints (not during circuits, but alone) for RECRUITMENT OF THE HIGHER NUMBER OF FIBERS, ramps FOR FUNDAMENTAL STRENGTH FOR A RUNNER. In this case, ramps replace training of weights. When you go for a training having like goal the improvement of STRENGTH (not Strength Endurance) or SPEED, you must use very high intensity (near the max) and recovery is very important, because you must be fresh. Your goal, in fact, is not ENDURANCE, but the ability to work at max intensity for your muscles. So, recovery after every ramp (but also after every sprint climbing) must be FULL (may be also 2min or more, depending from the length of the sprint, that in any case never is longer than 100m, normally 80m).

Maybe I am reading wrong. I think it is very true from my own limited experience with this work, having only started after you mentioned it, that simply working to move your body up such a steep resistance is like a highly specific weight workout but better in transferring to actual running mechanics.

But 80-100m up this type of hill seems counterproductive. It is hard enough to move up 40m, because even for such a short distance it might take 8:00 mile pace or slower moving horizontally but putting in maximum effort (because the hill is so steep).

To go 100m, I think (maybe not for Kenyans, but for even serious racers slower) the muscles would begin to fill with lactic acid and the contractile properties would fail. In a weight workout, of course, you stop the set when you can no longer lift the weight. Likewise, even with full recovery, going up 100m on a ramp might handicap the runner by lowering the blood pH and training poor movements. Only this is my guess, though, and of course I could be wrong since my experience with this work is limited.

How many hard workouts in a week ? I use normally 2 very hard workouts, not in the same direction. But I want to remind that there are many levels of intensity, not only very hard workouts and regeneration.

Perhaps this is the answer to my question above. Even still, I was always under the impression that the Kenyans and Ethiopians did only regeneration or hard running. Easy to recover, hard for a training effect. It did not seem there was so great a place or benefit for the intensities of "in between" as it could take away from recovery and hurt the harder sessions when the runner needs to be rested.

An example of weekly programme for an athlete of 13:30 (may be European) during the Fundamental Period :

MON
a) 1 hr progressive running from 3:45 to 3:25 per km
b) 40:00 easy + 10 x 80m sprint uphill

TUE
a) 30:00 easy + 8:00 / 6:00 / 4:00 / 2:00 / 1:00 fast recovery 2:00 moderate (about 4:00 per km)
b) 40:00 easy + exercises (skip, bounding, running in frequency, running with long strides)

WED
a) 1:20:00 at 3:45 pace
b) 30:00 easy + 4-6 km continuosly running uphill (80% intensity)

THU
a) 50:00 easy regeneration
b) 50:00 easy regeneration + stretching

FRI
a) 30:00 warm-up + 4-6 circuits lasting 4-5 min (uphill)
b) 1:00:00 easy regeneration

SAT
a) 1 hr with short variations of speed
b) 40 min easy

SUN
30:00 easy + 12 km at 3:05 pace

This might be my lack of knowledge of world class runners, but this schedule seems so hard for anyone.

On Monday there is threshold work in the morning and hill sprinting in the afternoon. Tuesday there is fartlek and drills. Right there are 4 moderate to hard sessions in just 2 days. Then it continues with a hard uphill work on Wednesday. The nexty day finally a recovery all day, but right back again on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, with circuits, 12km fast, and another fartlek.

And this week after week. Maybe they are that good to feel rested off of this, but it seems a prescription of injury for some. I only wish I could work to this level, because surely one could become much faster indeed!
Somewhere Else

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: Steeper Hills

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Doesn't seem that hard.

I took his example of a 13'30 runner and tried to convert the paces by 18.5% for a 16' runner. It's really rough, but 16' calculates into an AT of around 5'40 which can be seen in this adjusted schedule so it at least has some relevance for comparison.

Mon
am: 60' progressive (7'05 > 6'05)
pm: 40' easy (7'30) + 10 x 80m uphill sprints

Tue
am: 30' easy (7'30) + 8'/6'/4'/2'/1' (5'40), rec: 2' (~7'30)
pm: 40' easy (7'30) + drills

Wed
am: 1h20' (7'05)
pm: 30' easy (7'30) + 6km uphill (6'15?)

Thu
am: 50' regeneration (7'45)
am: 50' regeneration (7'45)

Fri
am: 30' wu (7'30) + circuits
am: 60' regenration (7'45)

Sat
am: 60' with short variations, 45" (5k pace?) rec: 2'15 (7'30)
pm: 40' easy (7'30)

Sun
30' easy (7'30) + 12km (5'50)

Roughly 98 miles.

mr. runner man

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: Steeper Hills

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You said:
"On Monday there is threshold work in the morning and hill sprinting in the afternoon. Tuesday there is fartlek and drills. Right there are 4 moderate to hard sessions in just 2 days. Then it continues with a hard uphill work on Wednesday. The nexty day finally a recovery all day, but right back again on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, with circuits, 12km fast, and another fartlek."

Here is how I interpret this schedule:
M: a.) NOT a threshold (for a 13:30 guy, 3:45-3:25 per km is not threshold work). This is just a normal distance run, 6:00 down to 5:30 pace. Moderate intensity.
b.) Recovery run + uphill strides. Strides shouldn't tire you out. Easy intensity.

T: a.) Fartlek session. High intensity.
b.) Recovery run + drills. Drills wouldn't whipe an athlete out. Easy intensity.

W: a.) Medium length run. Easy intensity.
b.) Hill run. Moderate-to-hard intensity.

T: a + b.) 2 easy runs. Easy intensity.

F: a.) Warm-up + circuits. Moderate intensity.
b.) Easy run. Easy intensity.

S: a.) Easy fartlek. Moderate intensity.
b.) Easy run. Easy intensity.

S: a.) Threshold work. High intensity.

My tally: 2 hard workouts (long fartlek + threshold), 1 moderate-to-hard (hill session), 3 moderate workouts (progession-type run on Monday, circuits Thursday, and easy fartlek Friday), and 7 easy runs.

Thats a little harder than my schedule. I usually have 2 hard workouts, 2 moderate workouts, and 6 easy runs... but I don't run 13:30; I run a little under 15.
sub 13

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: Renato Canova

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Renato,

If you want to changed the fartlek session on Tue to a track season instead,
is the goal with the session to increase aerobic power?
Can you give some examples on track seasons instead of the fartlek on Tue during the fundamental period?
(bad weather conditions in Europe during the winter)
I am a 3.42 1500m runner and 14.01 5000m runner.

Also, for pure speed. Why do sprints uphill instead of sprints on the flat?

Thank you!
Renato Canova

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: Steeper Hills

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Steeper hills, you are wrong speaking about high intensity for a training like this. For running 13:30 you must train, and this one is an easy training for the first month of preparation. I want remind that every workout can be HARD or MODERATE or EASY depending on the interpretation. For example, like already some else replied you, the training of Monday is not at Threshold speed. If a runner of 13:30 runs at Threshold about 3:40 > 3:25, in that moment is not able running in 15:00. You must calculate the intensity in relation to your performance : the "internal load" is completely different, and you must know that, when 3 athletes carry out the same training, the only sure thing is that THEY HAD A DIFFERENT TRAINING. Training is not what you do, but the value and the cost of the answer from your body. So, you must learn that, also for the same athlete, the same training, depending on personal conditions (also psychological) and external conditions (for example, weather, cold, hot, etc..) can appear very different. 10x1000 in 3:00 during a nice day, carried out when you are fresh at the beginning of a training period, can have the same effect of 10x1000 in 3:10/3:15 when temperature is very cold and you are tired because of previous training or personal problems. So, you must to learn to distinguish "internal load", that is the ANSWER or your body to the proposal of training, and "external load", that is the proposal.
About the short sprints uphill, I can assure you that is a type of training that doesn't leave any tiredness in your legs, expecially when you are used to do it. Of course, you must use full recovery (about 1:30 / 2 min), not running coming back and going up again after 30 sec. It's not a circuit, their goal is different (recruitment of the higher number of fibers). About every type of fartlek (long like on Tuesday, or short) is the type of interpretation that can make a work hard or moderate. During this period, every thing is moderate. For example, if on Tuesday I want to replace long fartlek (that I prefer because you must follow your sensation at the beginning of training, not needing to follow specific speed like when you are preparing an important competition) and I put 3000 / 2 x 2000 / 3 x 1000m, for the above athlete of 13:30 times can be 9:00 - 5:50 - 2:50, that are very slow. So, this training is not hard, because only the tests are at Threshold level.
Regarding the short variations of speed, in my programmes this is a workout of easy regeneration, not a fartlek for "building" something. The mean is to train, running easy, the ability to change length of strides and frequency, using 30/45 seconds of easy effort for mechanical reasons. Don't think that always "Fartlek" must be something very hard : originally the word meant "Game of running", and was at free interpretation of every runner.
Personally, I prefer not to use track, because european and american runners lost the "instinct" of running, changing something that is natural in mathematic : running at Threshold with cardio, going on track for controlling always the speed, measuring every thing for being sure. Running is something else, and for running fast you must follow your sensations, and for following you must know what your sensations mean. Task of a coach is to follow the athletes for teaching them to "hear" and to "feel" themselves, and to arrange their training with big goals, leaving a good space to personal interpretations. For example, if I decided an easy day of regeneration after a hard training for a my athlete, but there is a group that after 30 min starts running very fast, and my athlete runs fast with other athletes because for him this is funny and stimulating, for me is OK : but I have to arrange the next workout. Of course, I cannot permit that an athlete goes for 5 times in hard work, but this is my task : to give an address to his talent, not to humiliate his talent in a jail that makes him to lose the ability to enjoy running.
Last thing : about "ramps" that sometimes I use (see John Korir training), these NEVER ARE LONGER THAN 40m (many times only 20m), depending on the gradient. In any case, are very different from sprints uphill (about 10%), because you must use more STRENGTH in less dynamic way (so, while I use sprints during all the season, I finish with ramps after the first 2 months of preparation).
Why are better climbing than on flat ? Because climbing you can use and develop a higher percentage of STRENGTH : a normal runner cannot recruit a high percentage of fibers carrying out flat sprints, because the limits for his speed are mechanical. Climbing, you have less risk (it's very easy to have some injury sprinting on flat, practically impossible sprinting climbing) and can use more fibers. Of course, sprint is sprint, and the interpreation is AT MAX SPEED. Long and complete recovery in this case, forget to be long runners : one thing is to prepare your ENDURANCE (that is an enzymatic problem), another thing to prepare your muscles to work (that is a mechanical problem). Is completely useless to have a car with a very powerful engine, having a lot of problems in the wheels.
Rift Runner

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14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: Steeper Hills

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I'm not african, just a european with a pair of running shoes and a spirit of adventure !

My medical knowledge is patchy but i have never heard of contracting malaria from touching water. That said there are plenty of other things you can contract from touching water - bilhazia being one of the less pleasent. When i am at 8000ft there are very few mosquitos and certainly none of the malaria carrying kind. You should take medical advice from a pro.

The logistics is one of those things that when you have done it once you wonder what the fuss was about. Here are some suggestions:

You could conincide your flight with that of returning kenyan runners and get a lift with them. You will be welcome. Suggest you call one of the management companies who manage kenyans and ask nicely. In my experience athletes and managers are more than helpful when asked.

Alternatively email Lornah through her website and see when she has groups of people coming from nairobi.
http://www.lornah.com/index.htm

You have to give it a go

RR
ONE Love

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: sub 13

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Great stuff Renato.
Steeper Hills

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: Renato Canova

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Renato I agree about the fartlek being a training of feel and not of the stopwatch. Most would push too hard (myself included, as I did by mistake in the past) doing trackwork in November for the main races in May or June.

I suppose it SEEMS very hard for a runner not able to run 13:30, but for a 13:30 athlete it is moderate.

I thank you also for your explanation of the ramps. My last questions about this were, what is the construction of the workout? Does Korir do 50 minutes easy, for example, then find a ramp and do 10 ramps? And why is this used after 2 months and not from the beginning? The runner who lifts weights usually begins early in the offseason and levels off as the competitions approach? Is that not the same for ramps?

I assume also that when you say "use more strenght in LESS DYNAMIC WAY" you mean that the athlete should use longer steps getting up the hill (a work for stride length). I ask this because you said before the hills should be used to improve deficiencies; stride faster to improve frequency and longer to improve length. Maybe I am wrong, but my guess is that the ramps are for length (Within the specification of strength)?

Finally, what is your thought

Steeper Hills

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: Steeper Hills

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Sorry, my last question got cut off:

What is your thought on Rift Runner's description of the logistics of runners traveling to Kenya? Also, what of students, etc. who can do this only during the summer (when there is a vacation) yet all the athletes are then in Europe at Golden League meets or at the World Championships?

Thanks for the help.
Tim Dalton

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: Renato Canova

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One thing I read at the beginning of this thread from Renato which seems a bit "off":

"Instead, if I have the goal to increase the AnT of an athlete running, for example, 5000m, the system must be different. I have to use a combined work that has different means : short and continue distance at 95-98% of the race pace (4-6 km, that we call "fast short continue run") ; long intervals at a speed of 2-3% faster than the race pace (for ex., 4 x 2000 rec. 3 min, or 3 x 3000 rec. 3 min, for an amount of about 2 times the length of the race); medium intervals at a speed of 3-5 % faster than the race pace, using very short intervals (f.e., 3 sets of 6 x 500m rec. 45 sec. between tests, 4-5 min between tests). The combined action of these workouts provokes an increment in the level of AnT. You must support all this type of work with a very big volume of full Aerobic run (70-85% of the pace of the race, if you are a specialist of 5000m). Without this, the AnT grows in short time, but the athlete cannot preserve his shape for long time."

Perhaps I read this differently than what Renato means, but it seems like, in answering that very first guy's question, it is best to improve the AnT by (using one example he gave):

"4-6 km @ 95-98% of the race"

This seems like a ridiculous session, even for a very good athlete. Take Kwalia, for example, one of Renato's 5,000m guys. Suppose he is in 13:00 shape. So for Kwalia, it is recommended that he, FOR A WORKOUT, do something like 4-6 km @ 2:39-2:44 per kilometer. So ostensibly, a 13:00 5K runner could end up doing, AS A WORKOUT TO IMPROVE THE THRESHOLD, 5K @ 2:39 per km, or 13:15.

Granted, I do not have Renato's knowledge, but I am certain that workouts running within half a minute of a lifetime best at 5,000m in training, supposing to improve the Anearobic Threshold, is really not going to help that athlete who started the thread, the "young, inexperienced" runner.

Same with the others. "4 x 2000 @ 2-3% faster than the speed of the race".

Take again the 13:00 runner. 2-3% faster than 2:36 per km is 2:31-2:33 per km. So this workout is 4 x 2000m in 5:02-5:06 for an athlete capable of 13:00. A 13:00 5K runner can probably run the mile, if well trained aerobically, in 3:54-3:55. Maybe 2,000m all-out in 4:58-5:00. So now he must do, in training for his AnT, 4 of those 2,000's in 5:02-5:06.

I cannot understand how this is recommended training for improving the anerobic threshold, unless perhaps we are coming from two completely different definitions if AnT.

I have understood it to be like Tinman, described in another thread, where his runners go out for 20-25 minutes continuous at 8-10% slower than 5,000m race speed. What happened to this type of work for the AnT? Those sessions above described by Renato would seem to put the athlete in such deep anaerobic oxygen debt as to lower the blood pH and LOWER the AnT, not raise it.

But again, maybe I mistake it. Anyone can clear me up if they know.
Steeper Hills

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: Steeper Hills

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I have new respect for Renato's runners after doing one of those "circuits" he posted just an hour ago. The description read as follows:

"Extensive Strength - Resistance Circuits

In this type of Circuit, which we can consider as a ‘Basic General Circuit’, we have the goal of increasing MUSCLE EXTENSIVE RESISTANCE, carrying out exercises at middle intensity connected one another with runs at Aerobic Threshold pace.

We use this type of Circuit during the Preliminary and Fundamental Periods with, of course, some differences depending on the event to improve the capability of working longer using the same percentage of maximum strength.

This Circuit is quite Aerobic and builds up the base of Endurance that later we have to develop into Strength-Endurance.

Extensive Strength - Resistance Circuit
(1500 / 5000m)

(900m uphill, gradient 7-10 %, + 700m flat)

300m fast running uphill (duration 55.0 >< 60.0)
10 squatjumps (duration 15.0 >< 18.0)
60m sprint uphill (duration 10.0 >< 12.0)
20m skipping with strides 50cm long (duration 30.0 >< 40.0)
200m moderate running uphill (duration 45.0 >< 50.0)
20m heels-to-buttocks (duration 30.0 >< 40.0)
300m fast running uphill (duration 55.0 >< 60.0)
20 sagittal - splits (duration 20.0 >< 25.0)
200m moderate running on flat land (duration 45.0 >< 50.0)
30 even hops with blocked knees (duration 20.0 >< 30.0)
500m fast running at 85% of max. speed (duration 1:25 >< 1:40)
"

Since it was the first time I did it, I used an 800m hill 4 times without the last 700 flat portion.

Remember the description said the circuit was "quite aerobic."

After completing just 4 circuits on an 800m hill (the original is 900 hill, 700 flat) I can say it is the farthest thing from an aerobic circuit I have done in my life.

I was tying up badly like the last straightaway of a 400m by midway through each one, even taking 6-7 minutes of recovery (which did not help).

No more anaerobic circuits in late November for me after this.
Renato Canova

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: Tim Dalton

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Dear Tim, you have reason when you speak about 4 x 2000m. Only now (because when I write I have no time to read again what I wrote) I can realize that I read 2-3% FASTER, while is 2-3% SLOWER (faster are more short intervals). Of course, if you try to do 4x2000 at 2% faster of your PB in 5000m, you are not able (but nobody is able). Good analysis by you.
Instead, regarding 4-6 km continuous run at 95-98% (of course, 95% is for 6 km, 98% for 4 km) I confirm what I wrote. In your example, 95% is a pace of (2:36 = 156 sec, 5% of the pace is 7.8 sec per km = 2:43.8) and for 6 km this is a final time of 16:22.8 passing at 5 km in 13:39, very normal for an athlete able running in 13:00. The same case for 4 km at 98% (that is 2:39.2 per km) : 4 km in 10:36.8 are absolutely normal for a top athlete, going at 3000m in 7:57.6.
Our goal is not to improve AnT, but to create a special MAX LASS (or OBLA, if you prefer) that is the key of the specific endurance at high intensity.
You must not make the mistake to think of training for a young athlete like a miniaturization of the training of a top runner. The system for building your specific ability is something that has to change every year. So, with the beginner you must have a very big percentage of GENERAL TRAINING, using long aerobic run at low intensity but also technical exercises, exercises for cohordination, for elasticity, for reactivity. You must not only build the engine, but also TEACH TO THE ATHLETE ALL TECHNICAL THINGS THAT HE NEEDS FOR RUNNING FAST IN THE FUTURE. So, you must be a teacher more than a coach.
Going on in your career, the percentage of General Training decreases, and the area of Specific increases.
So, your example regarding Kwalia, for example, isn't pertinent, because you are speaking of an athlete coming from 15 years of training, and our beginners are really beginners. So, they have to do WHAT KENYANS DID FOR 10 OR MORE YEARS, without knowing the final effect, like normal activity connected with their type of life (also playing, for example, for 1 hr running and pushing a big tyre of a tractor when they are 8 years old), and that in our society nobody does (but in the past, at the time of Prefontaine and Lindgren, for example, I think that also in US was the same). So, what is able to do in training a 20 years old like Kwalia or Kipchoge, may be possible for an American or a European when is 28 years old, after having built the base that he doesn't have.
One thing is sure : if you want running fast in competition, you must run fast in training. The problem is WHEN and HOW, not IF. A workouts like running 6 km at 95% of your pace in 5 km is something that you can carry out once every two weeks, for example. I never used microcycles, thinking that in the modern methodology for top runners this is not possible. For example, during the last 41 days before winning World Championships 99 in Seville in 3000 SC, Christopher Koskei (elder brother of Shaheen) had to compete 14 times in races of steeple (one every 3 days !). So, I had to manage this situation, and at the end he won, reaching his top shape for the Championships. How is possible to think of a microcycle ? May be that we use something similar during the Fundamental period, but in any case we have so many type of workouts to do that is not possible to put every thing in a short period. Another reason is that I prefer to adjust training following the effects of the previous training. My schedules are outlines lastings normally 2 months, but at the end of the period the training effectively carried out is like the program only for 50%, the other 50% is the product of a change that I do looking at the effects in short time of training already made.
If you want to follow a training like what (not only me) we use with top runners with a young runner, you make a big mistake. Remember always the 3 most important points of a good training : CONTINUITY, GRADUALNESS and MODULATION. You must have patience in building the body and the mind of an athlete, doing some hard training only when is possible.
Last thing regarding who tried to use the scheme for circuits that I wrote. Not refuse circuits, but try to adapt them to your current situation. Where I write 200m running go, for example, for 50m, where I put 40m bounding go for 20m only, reduce the length, don't use too high intensity, and START TO PREPARE YOUR BODY FOR BECOMING ABLE TO DO THIS WORK NEXT YEAR. Remember that the most important part of training is TRAINING FOR BEING ABLE TO TRAIN : 80-85% of your training has to have this goal, 15-20% the goal to prepare the competition.
Tim Dalton

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: Renato Canova

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Renato, thank you as always for this helpful writings.

Renato Canova wrote:
Instead, regarding 4-6 km continuous run at 95-98% (of course, 95% is for 6 km, 98% for 4 km) I confirm what I wrote. In your example, 95% is a pace of (2:36 = 156 sec, 5% of the pace is 7.8 sec per km = 2:43.8) and for 6 km this is a final time of 16:22.8 passing at 5 km in 13:39, very normal for an athlete able running in 13:00. The same case for 4 km at 98% (that is 2:39.2 per km) : 4 km in 10:36.8 are absolutely normal for a top athlete, going at 3000m in 7:57.6.

I speak about this then with respect to the top athlete and not a younger beginner since you talked about that later in this post. Even for a top athlete, though, I am surprised that there is work to improve the Max Lass so early in the season.

Maybe again I made a mistake in reading, because as yet we did not see the full year of Shaheen (or Kwalia, in this example; if it is possible can you show us? It is always informative to read the training of the best athletes, and for certain you coach and prepare the best), but I do not know when this training is used. I have not seen it in the programs of Shaheen you sent out by e-mail. Maybe it is new, like the circuits? It seems too stressful to do year-round. Even for a top athlete, I doubt a 13:00 5K runner is 365 days a year in 13:00 shape. If there is their lifetime best, the very fastest they have ever run on a perfect day with pacemakers, rested, at peak shape, then they are likely not in this condition at some point in the year far from competition. In this case, say in January, it may not be so easy for a 13:00 runner who has not raced for a while (and is not in Personal Record condition) to pass through 5K in 13:39 in training.

Our goal is not to improve AnT, but to create a special MAX LASS (or OBLA, if you prefer) that is the key of the specific endurance at high intensity.

Again this is my misunderstanding. I recognize the term Onset of Blood Lactate Accumulation (coined by Owen Anderson of Running Research News) but not the idea "the goal is not to improve AnT." I remember in another post you said that the Kenyans from their early years have naturally a high AnT. But of course, an American such as myself that trains reasonably well and hard (but I did not run to school as a child, not living in the same conditions as a Kenyan) I do not have a naturally high AnT and probably neither do many of these posters, even good college runners competing in the U.S. X-C championships.

So probably they need to work on improving their AnT, because it is not naturally high. Can I assume that, in the offseason when an athlete cannot do safely a stressful training for improving the MAX LASS, the base of AnT is the best aerobic work to progress with? For an American, then, what training is used to improve the AnT? This is I think is what the original poster was asking, who probably being young and imexperienced but a distance runner who wants to improve maximally needs to work on his AnT with tempo runs and work at the "conventional" threshold of 4 mmol blood lactate, another term you mentioned.

What is your thougt about this idea?

You must not make the mistake to think of training for a young athlete like a miniaturization of the training of a top runner. The system for building your specific ability is something that has to change every year.

I can understand this, but what can I or other athletes do who cannot unfortunately received personalized programs from a top coach like you or someone else but "miniaturize" the work of the best? I do not have your phsiological knowledge nor the means to create a long term training program taking into consideration my lifetime activity and all my training of the past years. I and I am sure everyone else wishes they could do this, but that is why you are a great coach and we ask you the questions, you having the knowledge everyone else does not (or Mr. Cabral, or John Kellogg, or Hadd, or Tinman). So maybe it is not always bad to look at least at the principles of the training of Shaheen or Kemboi but fit it to an athlete not yet so fast (and probably even with good effort never as fast, because they are the best in the world).

So, with the beginner you must have a very big percentage of GENERAL TRAINING, using long aerobic run at low intensity but also technical exercises, exercises for cohordination, for elasticity, for reactivity. You must not only build the engine, but also TEACH TO THE ATHLETE ALL TECHNICAL THINGS THAT HE NEEDS FOR RUNNING FAST IN THE FUTURE. So, you must be a teacher more than a coach.
Going on in your career, the percentage of General Training decreases, and the area of Specific increases.
So, your example regarding Kwalia, for example, isn't pertinent, because you are speaking of an athlete coming from 15 years of training, and our beginners are really beginners. So, they have to do WHAT KENYANS DID FOR 10 OR MORE YEARS, without knowing the final effect, like normal activity connected with their type of life (also playing, for example, for 1 hr running and pushing a big tyre of a tractor when they are 8 years old), and that in our society nobody does (but in the past, at the time of Prefontaine and Lindgren, for example, I think that also in US was the same). So, what is able to do in training a 20 years old like Kwalia or Kipchoge, may be possible for an American or a European when is 28 years old, after having built the base that he doesn't have.

This is maybe the most discouraging thing about competitive distance running, that talent is such a big factor. OF course, no one can choose their parents, and no one can choose to live 10 miles from school so that they can build their base, knowing they want to be a great distance runner at age 5! But hopefully, everyone can improve as you said, but at a later date than age 20 if American or European.

One thing is sure : if you want running fast in competition, you must run fast in training. The problem is WHEN and HOW, not IF. A workouts like running 6 km at 95% of your pace in 5 km is something that you can carry out once every two weeks, for example. I never used microcycles, thinking that in the modern methodology for top runners this is not possible. For example, during the last 41 days before winning World Championships 99 in Seville in 3000 SC, Christopher Koskei (elder brother of Shaheen) had to compete 14 times in races of steeple (one every 3 days !). So, I had to manage this situation, and at the end he won, reaching his top shape for the Championships. How is possible to think of a microcycle ? May be that we use something similar during the Fundamental period, but in any case we have so many type of workouts to do that is not possible to put every thing in a short period. Another reason is that I prefer to adjust training following the effects of the previous training. My schedules are outlines lastings normally 2 months, but at the end of the period the training effectively carried out is like the program only for 50%, the other 50% is the product of a change that I do looking at the effects in short time of training already made.
If you want to follow a training like what (not only me) we use with top runners with a young runner, you make a big mistake. Remember always the 3 most important points of a good training : CONTINUITY, GRADUALNESS and MODULATION. You must have patience in building the body and the mind of an athlete, doing some hard training only when is possible.
Last thing regarding who tried to use the scheme for circuits that I wrote. Not refuse circuits, but try to adapt them to your current situation. Where I write 200m running go, for example, for 50m, where I put 40m bounding go for 20m only, reduce the length, don't use too high intensity, and START TO PREPARE YOUR BODY FOR BECOMING ABLE TO DO THIS WORK NEXT YEAR. Remember that the most important part of training is TRAINING FOR BEING ABLE TO TRAIN : 80-85% of your training has to have this goal, 15-20% the goal to prepare the competition.

I will keep this in mind. Thanks.
Racer1

registered

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: Tim Dalton

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This is a really fantastic discussion.

Renato has answered already most of those questions assembled but these are the remaining:

2. Can you post the full programs of Shaheen, Kemboi, and Kwalia?

3. In reference to the Specific Strength: Endurance Circuits Renato said: "Being a very hard training we can use it only few times during the final part of the Special Period and during the period of main competitions. "

Specifically, how many time per season would these specific strength circuits (the extremely hard ones) be used?

7. you said that you spend the first 3 months for developing the AnT of your runners.
can you explain more about the base training that the runners are doing when home in Kenya?

8. How do you improve a runner's anaerobic threshold if they do not have one naturally high like the Kenyans?

10. I am most interested in how Renato sequences the workouts and fits them into the weekly program. It would be great if he has time to show Shaheen and Kemboi's program over several months to get an idea, particularly during the off-season where many runners need some idea of speficity.

Especially that circuit he uses for the competitive season looks nearly impossible. It goes 300 fast, 200 fast, 100 fast, then back up again (100-200-300) and in between are mixed squat jumps (and 10 of those at max effort is quite strenuous) and 100m bounding and skiping, twice each.

The whole thing is 1600m and to do that 4-6 times would be totally appalling. After even 1 of those I think I would be so locked up that the next circuit would be completed at a stumbling pace and I would be barely moving up the hill.

I can understand the benefit in the very last part of the season in placing the muscles under the most acidic conditions possible, but I imagine that it might be counterproductive towards running economy and the ability to even complete the next circuit due to such a strong muscle seizure from the flooding with lactic acid.

11. Renato, how can you determine whether or not someone has talent? Is it not always possible to improve? The athlete can always manage a race a little bit faster if they train a little bit harder, and a little faster the next time?

If it is all about what you are born with, how can anyone ever be among the best but the Africans? The 6 year old child who will one day become a runner cannot possbily know he must begin training by running quickly to school.

Additionally, a random query; I was watching earlier a tape of track races, one of which was Daniel Komen's 7:20.67 3,000 meter world best, easily one of the most incredible performanced I have ever seen.

Perhaps Renato, living among the Kenyans, knows, or to anyone who knows; what happened to Komen?

He was only 20 at his best, broke the records indoors and out for 3K, outdoors for the 2 mile and the 5K, and not only broke them, but put them so far out of reach in the 3K and the 2 mile that no one, not even Gebrselassie or El Guerrouj or Bekele has been able to touch them.

I saw him in October as a pacemaker at the Chicago Marathon but it is strange at age 28, still young, that he lost his ability so much.
sub 13

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: Renato Canova

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Renato,
I am intrested to know how you modulate easy, moderate and hard sessions during the track period.
Can you give example of a week training for ex. a 3.35 or a 13.15 runner during the track season?

I also wonder if training like 4x2000m 3 min rec and 8x1000m 2-3 min rec can be good for 1500m runners during the fundamental period to increase special max lass and stamina?

Thanks for all the interesting srufff!
testing

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: sub 13

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