Mr. Renato Canova: Could You Please Answer a Question About Effective Ways to Improve the Lactate Threshold?

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aouitasback

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: HAHAHAHAHAH

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1)Shaheen ran a 5k in 04(13:14 after falling)
2)Rui Silva already ran 3:30 4-5 years ago, just didn't perform at his best at major champs because of various reasons
3)Running [email protected] is nothing special so 7:35 isnt weak compared to his workouts
4)Tim Hutchings didn't follow Horwill, Hutchings training was based on 2 very hard track sessions + one long run.
dunes runner

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14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: well

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well wrote:

Renato:

You wrote on an earlier page that you discourage someone with a slower PR--say 17 minutes for 5,000--running a lot of mileage. But how else can someone become fast except by increasing training?

Run more at race pace.
Tinman

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: aouitasback

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aouitasback:

You are right. Tim Hutchings did not strictly follow Horwill's advice. He has been quoted as saying that he would not have survived has he done all of Horwill's workouts. Some British posters shared that. I knew it to because twice I saw his training schedule listed in the 1980s. One time it was his xcountry training. He was running 90 miles per week and doing session of 6 x 1000m at 2:36 per rep and one session of 600m hill repeats. This was prior to his silver medal at the World XCountry Championships. The second time it showed 86 miles for the week and he had done 4 x 1 mile and a session of 600s and 300s. That was it. The rest were 10-12 mile runs at a modest pace.

Brendan did 3 x 1 mile in 4:10 just prior to his 7:35 world record for 3000m.
do it do it

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: Tinman

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Horwill is something of a nut.

In one of his articles he gave a ridiculous hypothetical using the example of the gazelle boy feral dude they found running on all fours at 30 mph out in the wilderness:

http://www.serpentine.org.uk/advice/coach/fh27.php

Basically he says start at 16 x 100m at 14 seconds each and keep the pace while increasing to 150's, 200's, 300's, and someday maybe you'll do 1 x 1600 in 3:44. Yeah right.
What\\\'s the deal

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: Renato Cannova

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Renato Cannova wrote:

ARF ARF ARF!
You are obscenely stupid human being. Since you began polluting this and other threads with you trash as of late, most of it centering upon your central interest--human excrement--you have established yourself as the least like poster on these boards.

I would expect more from a 4 year old. I would not at all be surprised if your mother accidentally slipped some arsenic into your baby formula when you were young and the obvious cerebral impairment you display on a regular basis is a direct consequence of the poison your system ingested.

Because I doubt your ability to read I'll use very simple words in what follows: Stop. Writing. Go. Away.

Renato has stopped answering questions and posting here because of idiots like you. Let everyone else learn and discuss.

For your own entertainment purposes, might I suggest the URL www.iamaridiculouslystupidhumanbeing.com.

I can't see I am wure if it exists, but I think the simple task of pasting the URL into your browser will occupy you for a few weeks. Then finding that the page does not exist will tie you up for some more time. Enjoy. And get out.
a strange idea

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: do it do it

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I have sort of a theoretical question for any of the coaches on here to answer:

Is there a way to determine one's improvement curve and/or ceiling of performance?

Or, for that matter, does anyone EVER reach their absolute peak? Even Michael Johnson stumbled the 5th step out of the blocks in Atlanta when he ran 19.32, and that's a 200 which has one of the smallest margins of error in terms of absolute improvement. Bekele, for instance, is out there for 26 plus minutes and so has nearly a half an hour of time in which to run a little bit faster. But, since the original question was about improvement and overcoming stagnation, what sort of signs does the coach look for?

Renatonio Cabralanavo

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: What\\\'s the deal

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WOOF WOOF??? whimper, whimper......WOOOOOOF?

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOF!!!!!!!!!!
Dream Mile

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: Renatonio Cabralanavo

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Does anyone know if the Dream Mile winner is trained by Renato?
thesenior

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: Leonard Luchaine

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noway
jt

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: thesenior

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bump this
Renato Cabral

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: jt

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I am now Mr. Renato Cabral. Yes, I coach 3:47 mile man, he good, huh?
please do so

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: Dream Mile

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Renato, what do you know about this guy who ran 3:47? He seemed to come out of nowhere.

Michael Bautista

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14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: please do so

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That guy did not come out of nowhere, he ran 3:30 in mid May in Doha behind Komen, then also a loss in Athens to Heshko, he didn't run well in Paris though, he's been a top 1500m guy this year
Renato Canova

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: please do so

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Bashir is the former Kenyan David Nyaga. He last year ran 3:36.08 / 7:44 and 7:49 9always winning) in 3000 / 8:23 in steeple in Luzern, winning the race, but the official results bring him to 3rd place with 8:32 due to a mistake of computer. He was in training with me from the last 2 years, and this year he spent all his winter in Iten. He already wanted to go to Qatar, but it was no more possible because the Emir, after hearing our proposal, tired to read that Qatar was a thief of athletes (don't do confusion with Bahrain, every thing in Qatar happened with the agreement of AK), decided to stop every change of citizenship. So, I trained Nyaga for becoming one of the top Kenyans. However, in March he had yet an opportunity thru a Qatari team. He went to Doha on 10th of April, and had a test running 1200m and 300m with an interval of 3 minutes, ALONE, with times of 2:47.8 / 36.1. So, the President of one oif the 11 teams that there are in Qatar attached him, and, because he is a member of the Royal Family, he changed in short time his citizenship. This didn't happen thru Qatar Federation.
With the new name of Bashir, Nyaga went to Gulf Championships, and won in 3:37.37 beating Ramzi (3:37.41) with the last 300m in 36.8.
After this, because we have an organization in middle distance where I'm the responsible from 3000 to Marathon, and I personally pushed for having Luiz de Oliveira in the team like responsible for 800/1500m, I gave the athlete to Luiz, that is now his coach. Our program are different, not so much technically, but under the point of view of the organization. For example, I spent my June and July essentially in Kenya (but it was a mistake, because July is terrible, always raining and it's very diffgicult to train well because of the mud), and Luiz essentially in St. Moritz, like I always did in the past.
Afdter this, Bashir ran 3:31.04 in Doha (2nd), then a poor 800m (1:49) in Hengelo, then another poor 1500 in Paris (3:43). After a short period in Kenya, he came back to St. Moritz, and everything was OK : he won in Madrid 3000m with 7:41, then ran 800m in 1:47.5 in Italy, and finally the Mile in Oslo. This guy can become very strong also in 5000m, but at the moment his main event is 1500 / 3000. He is not very young, already 26y old, but has a lot of talent.
ODX

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: Renato Canova

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Renato: Nice that you are back with your great info about the world-class athletes. Interesting about Luiz, didn't know he was coach of the quataris. Looking forward to the worlds, the steeple is always the most spectacular event with Shaheen playing the biggest role.
Mr lactate

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: Renato Canova

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Renato,
How would you train a world class 800/1500m runner during the racing season were there are no races?
How many track sessions, mileage, sprints/strength?
Are you using a lot of 3k-5k pace sessions for milers or is it mostly fast sessions at 8/1500 pace?
Thanks for good information!
Michael Bautista

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14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: Renato Canova

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Hi Renato! Thanks for your information about this athlete

Please tell me more information about the 800 race in Italy after Madrid, so I can add it to the Tilastopaja.net results section for this athlete

Please tell me date, city, name of the meet, exact time, and his position in the race

Also, will Shaheen run 3k sc and 5000 in Helsinki? By the way I will send you emails about my program after Helsinki, when you are less busy :D
Skuj

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: Michael Bautista

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Thank you Renato. Fascinating stuff.

I'm surprised and happy to see the Great Brazilian Coach keeping busy.
no no no

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: Renato Canova

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Renato Canova wrote:

Bashir is the former Kenyan David Nyaga. He last year ran 3:36.08 / 7:44 and 7:49 9always winning) in 3000 / 8:23 in steeple in Luzern, winning the race, but the official results bring him to 3rd place with 8:32 due to a mistake of computer. He was in training with me from the last 2 years, and this year he spent all his winter in Iten. He already wanted to go to Qatar, but it was no more possible because the Emir, after hearing our proposal, tired to read that Qatar was a thief of athletes (don't do confusion with Bahrain, every thing in Qatar happened with the agreement of AK), decided to stop every change of citizenship. So, I trained Nyaga for becoming one of the top Kenyans. However, in March he had yet an opportunity thru a Qatari team. He went to Doha on 10th of April, and had a test running 1200m and 300m with an interval of 3 minutes, ALONE, with times of 2:47.8 / 36.1. So, the President of one oif the 11 teams that there are in Qatar attached him, and, because he is a member of the Royal Family, he changed in short time his citizenship. This didn't happen thru Qatar Federation.
With the new name of Bashir, Nyaga went to Gulf Championships, and won in 3:37.37 beating Ramzi (3:37.41) with the last 300m in 36.8.
After this, because we have an organization in middle distance where I'm the responsible from 3000 to Marathon, and I personally pushed for having Luiz de Oliveira in the team like responsible for 800/1500m, I gave the athlete to Luiz, that is now his coach. Our program are different, not so much technically, but under the point of view of the organization. For example, I spent my June and July essentially in Kenya (but it was a mistake, because July is terrible, always raining and it's very diffgicult to train well because of the mud), and Luiz essentially in St. Moritz, like I always did in the past.
Afdter this, Bashir ran 3:31.04 in Doha (2nd), then a poor 800m (1:49) in Hengelo, then another poor 1500 in Paris (3:43). After a short period in Kenya, he came back to St. Moritz, and everything was OK : he won in Madrid 3000m with 7:41, then ran 800m in 1:47.5 in Italy, and finally the Mile in Oslo. This guy can become very strong also in 5000m, but at the moment his main event is 1500 / 3000. He is not very young, already 26y old, but has a lot of talent.
Renato thanks for the info but these times are out of this world.

He runs 3:36, 1:47 for 800, 8:23 for the steeple. All reasonable times.

He has a bad race with 3:43 (I'd love to run "badly" and run 3:43).

3:31, 1:49. Again, great times. But none of those point to a 3:47 mile.

And he ran the last 300 of a 1500 in THIRTY SIX SECONDS?!?!

How does someone with 800 times of 1:47 and 1:49, plus one 1500 race in 3:43, run a 3:47 mile? That bad 1500 race was almost the same time of his mile! He improved nearly 100m in that time span.

I admit I've never heard of him before but 3:36 1500 to a 3:47 mile is ridiculous improvement. That's up there with Cram, Komen, Niyongabo, Rotich, Kibowen, Morceli, El Guerrouj, and Ngeny. And this from a relatively unknown Kenyan.
no no no to you buddy

14 years ago 08/02/2005 6:01pm CDT
re: no no no

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You misread Mr. Canova's post. It reads:

"had a test running 1200m and 300m with an interval of 3 minutes, ALONE, with times of 2:47.8 / 36.1."

Hence, he ran a 1200, took a 3 minute rest, and THEN ran a 36.1 300