Goddamit nobody is using sarms-too easily tested for. Gw and aicar-yes. But you people don't understand how easy epo is to get away with. Only when you've injected epo into your blood stream will you truly understand how absolutely necessary it is. You can't win clean. You just can't. I laugh at how naive I once was. It's too bad that these Africans are being used by such euro-trash for cash.
WHERE ARE THE RESULTS. DR PAUL DIMEO DID A 2 YEAR STUDY AND THE RESULTS WERE TO COME OUT AFTER JANUARY 2012.
Anti doping body to work on Kenya
A University of Stirling expert on doping in sport has been selected to
investigate the prevalence or otherwise of performance enhancing drugs amongst
Kenya's elite-level runners.
Dr Paul Dimeo, author of the critically acclaimed A History of Drug Use in
Sport, has been selected by the World Anti Doping Agency (WADA) to carry out a
two-year project entitled Doping Behaviour, Causes and Prevention in Elite Level
Kenyan Athletes: an empirical investigation.
Kenya has a strong record of success in international athletics, particularly in
middle and long distance running, with all 14 of its 2008 Beijing Olympic medals
coming from running events.
Reigning Olympic gold medallists Asbel Kiprop and Brimin Kipruto, who claimed
the 1,500 metres and 3,000 metres steeplechase titles respectively in China,
will be in Scotland this weekend to compete in the BUPA Great Edinburgh
International Cross Country Run.
But while Kenyan athletes are household names on the international stage, little
is known about their own knowledge of drugs - some of which may inadvertently
fall foul of the WADA code.
"Kenyan athletes are not widely suspected of doping, with only eight high
profile cases in the last 20 years and several of these included taking
substances such as clomiphene and salbutamol, which might have been for medical
purposes," said Dr Dimeo, Director of taught postgraduate programmes in Sports
Management and Sports Coaching at Scotland's University for Sporting Excellence.
"Yet there is a feeling some global policy makers are anxious about the Kenyan
context and the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF) has
targeted Kenyan athletes for out-of competition tests due to its lack of an
established national anti-doping agency.
"WADA are also concerned about anti-doping in Kenya because it doesn't report
the statistics of national level testing. My research will look to identify if
there is a problem in Kenyan running, but it's also about getting an
understanding of the attitudes and practices of athletes, coaches and sports
staff in Kenya towards doping in athletics."
International sport has been plagued by the use of performance enhancing
chemically produced substances such as amphetamines, steroids, HgH, EPO and
other advanced chemical innovations since the 1960s.
However, naturally occurring plants in Kenya, such as mirra and khat, may
contain traces of substances noted on the WADA list, increasing athletes'
chances of testing positive in a doping control whether deliberately or
And a further issue surrounds the insufficient access in Kenya to the internet,
where much of the anti-doping information is held.
Dr Dimeo added: "There have been a number of studies to try and understand why
Africans and Kenyans in particular have been so successful in athletics, but no
research examining the risks posed by lack of information or how anti-doping
policies and educational initiatives function in African countries.
"There is an important sociological dimension in that most Kenyan athletes will
cross national boundaries for education, coaching, training and of course
competition so Kenya cannot be looked at in isolation.
"So any global flow of knowledge must be related to indigenous traditions, body
cultures, diets and such like which go a long way to inform the moral values and
socialisation of elite athletes."
Dr Dimeo will gather the project information in partnership with academics at
Kenyatta University in Nairobi, including former international runner Professor
Mike Boit and Dr Vincent Onywera, from the Department of Recreation Management
and Exercise Science.
It is hoped the project will be completed by January 2012, with its findings due
to be presented to WADA, the Kenyan sports authorities as well as to the
International Olympic Committee, IAAF and the Commonwealth Games Federation.
Michele Verroken, the former Director of Ethics and Anti-Doping at UK Sport, now
advises many sports bodies on anti-doping in her role as Director of sports
business consultancy, Sporting Integrity, and she believes Dr Dimeo's project
can offer new insights into anti-doping.
She said: "This research project will be incredibly important to help explain
better how athletes find out about doping and anti-doping, the risks and the
dangers in order to develop more relevant education and information programmes.
Athletes' exposure to doping information abroad and at home must be investigated
to assess the implications of the information they received and how to improve
the quality of this information."
I had time to read all the stupidity written in this thread, and really I see that people mentally sick become one of the dominant classes in this website.
To say that with some drug an athlete ruynning 3'35" in 1500m can become a marathon runner of top level (because when you speak about 300k and 100k it's clear you don't know anything about the athletic World) is something only an idiot can think. For the following reasons :
a) an athlete, Kenyan, running 3'35" doesn't earn 100k in one season : he has difficulty in finding some competition without money. For your info, these are the prizes in Diamond Leaugue, the same for every competition :
10000 $ the winner, then 6000 (2nd), 4000 (3rd), 3000 (4th), 2000 (5th), 1500 (6th), 1200 (7th), 1000 (8th), and, for middle didstances only, 500 $ for position bretween 9 and 12. This means, for example, that the athletes running 3'33"7 in Doha had a prize of 500 $.
And, always for your info, for winning 300K in a marathon, you need to win London or NY or Boston or Chicago, including a high appearance, that you can have only if already you are a top champion (no more than 10 athletes in the world can have appearance higher than 80000 USD, if Kenyan. Forget the economical level of American runner : your best in US is not in top 30 in the World but has a contract 8 times bigger than the top Kenyans).
b) For moving from 1500m to Marathon (that is possible) at top level, you need to have the specific attuitude for long distance. At the moment, I don't know any marathon runner in the World, apart Haile, able running under 3'38" in 1500m in his career. If you think everything possible with some drug, why there are not 100 marathon runners able to run under 2:05 coming from short distances ? You show are not only an idiot, but an idiot without any knowledge (so double idiot).
I see in this site there are a lot of people speaking about drugs with some knowledge about the formula : AICAR/GW1516, for example, that I don't have idea what is. The fact is that I don't have ideas about drugs, but I have ideas about training, and that's the reason because I don't believe in the drug effects.
And NOBODY of people writing here about drugs has any idea about the life in Kenya. Very few people have internet, nobody acts alone in the medical field, but they ask to their coaches and managers, and I think the most part of coaches and managers are correct. I never heard of a manager giving drugs. I heard about managers NOT CONTROLLING THEIR ATHLETES (because it's not possible) and learning from WADA some of them was doped (see the case of the American sprinters). In these cases, may be something can come from their coaches, but ALL these athletes were in Countries where was easy to find illegal supports on personal basis. This is not the situation of Kenya and Ethiopia, and the other African Countries are also worse organised.
Too many times who wants to write in this website doesn't know what he's speaking about. They don't know the value of performances, don't know training, don't know the economical value of performances, don't know about the contracts between Companies and athletes, don't know about the history of athletics, don't know about the different kind of life in different Countries, BUT WANT TO SPEAK.
And, in this case, there is one word only for defining these people : IDIOTS
Renato tonight while running I was thinking of the very different circumstances of modern marathons compared to back in 1980s.
Now we have many marathons with large fields of very fast runners going out at 2.03/04 pace with pacemakers often pushing pace until 30 plus kms.
Back in 1980s only a few "big" races with a small number of fast runners maybe one pacemaker up to 1/2 way and normally only running 2.08 pace.
I thought of Steve Jones, 1985 Chicago. Steve ran away on his own through 1/2 way at 2.03 pace. He could only hang on to finish in 2.07.
Undoubtably today's top marathoners are superior both in talent and training but I wonder how fast the great 1980s runners would run given the same situations the current stars have in races.
Could Jones have ran 2.05 if he had been tucked away behind pacemakers for well past 30kms?
Thank you for posting. There are a lot of us who do, in fact, appreciate you.
He ran 2:09 by running a TON of very fast, long miles in training. His typical "steady 25 miler" on Sundays seems an awful lot to me like Canova's 40k runs at 90% of marathon pace.
I suggested once that runners back then ran more hard days with less recovery and I got totally belittled by a famous poster who was a world class runner back then. BUT- I think you're right- on all points.
Runners at every level hammered miles- many of them- and raced a lot.
Considering the differences in shoes, nutrition, etc I don't think it's unusual that there are so many 2:05 guys.
I also think money has something to do with it and the fact that in Kenya $100,000 goes a lot farther than in the West.
Imagine of a 22 yr old American knew that if he ran a couple very fast marathons he be set for life AND that a piddling shoe contract can sustain him fro a while.
I hope that with biological passport implementation, everything IDIOT that is been said on LetsRun.com will be overcome and that finally a new Age will emerge from the drug darkness, without doping suspect of some distance performances . From now on if it´s EPO, self-blood transfusion or turtle blood, it doesn´t matter. They say that the biological passport is quite 100% tale for granted. I hope so.
Athlete Biological Passport: a promising new strategy in the fight against doping in Athletics
IAAF Blood Testing Protocol (ATHLETE BIOLOGICAL PASSPORT)
First doping violation concluded in Athletics on the basis of the Athlete Biological Passport
I hope that with biological passport, everything stupid that is been said on LR.com will be overcome. The cheaters will be detected, and those that don´t, they can prove that they don´t.
Kenyans don't dope- Kenyan high school kids came to Nike Cross National and swept all the races they participated in,these kids dope too?
Their 18 yr olds are really about 26ish.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and sincerely thank you for all your contributions to letsrun and the running community at large.
It's always fascinating and instructive to read the deep knowledge you share with everyone about the sport.
I wouldn't offer to put my "hands on fire" to prove someone on the Little League team I coach isn't on PEDS (yes, I've seen it in the past-- growth hormone.)
I just cannot accept Renato is so oblivious to the ease of obtaining PEDS these days.
5.3 percent of teenage GIRLS admit to having used steroids. Many say they are easier to obtain than beer.
What long distance coach, let alone a former cardiologist, wouldn't know what AICAR/GW1516 is? Simply UNBELIEVABLE.
Given coaching elite athletes is your job, and passion, how could you NOT stay current with what is out there?
BTW-- I'd love to hear Renato's take on Salazar's grey area supplementation.
Though, he will most likely profess to knowing nothing about it; and again would make me wonder why a coach, and former cardiologist, could have so little scientific curiosity.
The DRUG BELIEVERS are hurting athletics with their stupid beliefs and accusations, believing that only with DRUGS are people able to run their best.
The message of accusations and promoting the belief that drugs are better than healthy living and running, is hogwash of course There is no one doped up with drugs who is healthy. Look in any hospital and see how sick the people are who are doped up with these drugs, who are sick and sicker BECAUSE of the drugs not in spite of them.
People need to think for themselves, and to not believe the false flag drug promotions and false advertisements.
Junk master, some people aren't interested in da dope. Just because you are obsessed with the subject, doesn't mean that other people should be.
"...promoting the belief that drugs are better than healthy living and running, is hogwash of course."
If drugs don't work, why ban them?
Junk Master wrote:
"...promoting the belief that drugs are better than healthy living and running, is hogwash of course."
If drugs don't work, why ban them?
Right. Don't ban them.
Don't pay any attention to them, at all.
Don't give them any credence, because they don't have any credence.
Focus on our RUNNING - not drugs.
I agree, drugs are irrelevant to young East African runners, and should be to young Americans too. On the other hand, cynical old fools........
Usual crap on these boards
Dopers are inoccent like 2 time cheat Gatlin and our uk cheat Chambers should run in the Olympics, but coaches of athletes with no doping suspensions are treated with a total lack of respect
In your post there is the answer : "5.3 percent of teenage GIRLKS admit to having used steroiids. Many say there are easier to obtain than beer".
This is EXACTLY what happens in our Countries, especially US. And this is EXACTLY the reason because our world is crossing a very bad period, and the moral values lost importance in the mind of people.
For the new generations, to have everything easy means they lost the taste of the conquest of some better thing using motivation, determination, honesty, will, loyalty for receiving SATISFACTION and growing in their self confidence and personality.
This was the world of Prefontaine, Bill Rodgers, Jim Ryun, Peter Snell, Herb Elliot, for remaining in the big athletes of English language you know.
This is the world I remember, and I want to purpose again to young people. And African, on the contrary of the most part of our and your people, accept this teachment, because their life NEVER is easy how the life of our young generations. And for that reason, the new generation in our Countries can suffer today, because they FEAR TO LOSE WHAT ALREADY HAVE, INSTEAD AFRICAN WANT TO CONQUEST WHAT STILL DONT HAVE.
Can you, in your poor skeptical mind, understand that in the world there is still somebody believing in the moral values ? And that, if is 67 years old, can find sastisfaction in teaching these values, may be using athletics or any other opportunity for sending this message, trying to make their mind strong with the final goal to believe in themselves ?
Which is your contribution to a better society ? You don't educate anybody, you give wrong and CRIMINAL messages, because are people like you that make the idea of any drug so popular.
I'm not a cardiologist, but always I studied what happens in the body of the athletes due to their training, AND I DISCOVERED MANY OFFICIAL RULES OF PHYSIOLOGY ARE NOT CORRECT. When we speak about blood value, or about what happens in altitude, I have of sure more practical experience of every scientist, that had the opportunity to make some experiment for, may be, two weeks in his life, AND NEVER WITH THE BEST ATHLETES.
So, I'm not interested in ANY kind of drug, and what I know is something I had to face in Italy when I was the Head Coach of Multiple events. So, my knowledge is limited to some steroid of 40-30 years ago (Winstrow, Stromba or something like this), nothing else.
But, I repeat again : IF I HAVE SOME OF THE BEST RUNNERS IN THE WORLD AND I KNOW THEY ARE COMPLETELY CLEAN, WHY I HAVE TO SUPPOSE THE OTHER ATHLETES OF THE SAME LEVEL MUST USE SOME DRUG ?
You can believe or not in what I say, the fact is not important being you obviously a "minus quam" (if you don't know Latin, ask somebody to translate).
But this is the truth, and I hope in the future their position can become different, looking at educating people FOR WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO, not at suspecting every strong person of sport about cheating.
And, last thing : if the pharmacological business is the 3rd business in the World, is because the world of today is full of people not able to use their brain, but following TV and newspapers like the Bible, without understanding that, in our economical system, that is bringing our world to very dark times, they become slaves of every kind of publicity. So, in US you think everybody needs supplements also for writing behind a desk, and is not possible to survive without some pharmac.
One example : the most part of people coming Kenya follow a lot of profhylaxis against yellow fever, malaria, colera, typhus and other diseases. Result ? Many of them become sick, because all the vaccinations make them very weak. I live in Kenya 8 months per year, I came here in 1998, AND NEVER GOT ANY MEDICINE. And, of course, I never had any problem.
Try to return to a more natural approach, avoiding any idea of drugs not only in sport, but in your life, and you can become more quiet and your life become better.
No offense Canova, but you say you know your athletes are "completely clean." You cannot know this about all of your athletes. You even coach some from a distance, as I understand it. A man may not even know what his wife is up to, and you cannot be certain what some of your athletes are doing. You may, at least potentially, be able to state that you have no knowledge of your athletes being anything but clean, but you cannot know that none of them are cheating.
What's simply unbelievable is that you go on on and on about AlCAR and these other unproven drugs when something as simple and effective as blood packing is still extremely difficult to detect.
I think I'm beginning to understand your position.
At first, being of Italian-American descent myself, I was too quick to attribute your comments to the long standing Italian coaches tradition of being "furbo;" I'm sure you're familiar with the term.
Now, I understand you long for the days of Pre, Ryan, Snell. The days when the line between professionalism and amateurs was just being drawn. A bygone era when sport was thought to instill moral values.
That era is long gone.
Your athletes are PROFESSIONALS. They run for money, nothing more, nothing less.
Ask yourself why you initially cultivated your relationships with Kenyan runners? Was it because they best embodied the moral attributes you sought to promulgate? Or was it because they had the most genetic potential?
Wasn't it because you felt you couldn't continue to coach Italian athletes and win?
What message does that send to young Italian distance runners?