That isn't Earl Jones posting.
That isn't Earl Jones posting.
It seems like there are a lot of people who are both more talented and experienced than these two athletes and more knowledgeable about how to train them than their two coaches who like to post here.
If only they could be coached by a handful of these folks ... imagine the possibilities!
1:38's, no doubt, and peaked EXACTLY at the Olympic Games Final.
No question that American Distance Running would be better if LRC postings coached every runner.
He will have to be in phenomenal shape next month to withstand Symmonds and Andrews kicks considering both of their PR's are as good as or better than his.
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I would argue that Jock is faster than Andrews. I'm talking top end sprint speed. Yes, Andrews outkicked Jock last year @ NCs, but Jock set the pace and set up the race perfectly for RA. Jock does need to sit and kick more, but this conference race was a big one for him as it was Martin who took him down last year in the same race.
Symmonds is another story, another level of talent and experience. There are 3 spots for US colors though. I like how things are looking for the Anteater. ZOT!
I'm wondering if the Trials final will be similar to '08 with Jock subbing in for JJ and Andrews for Smith.
anyone know if these guys like each other? Are they friendly rivals or bitter rivals?
has been who never was wrote:
He will have to be in phenomenal shape next month to withstand Symmonds and Andrews kicks considering both of their PR's are as good as or better than his.
because of course, that is how the Olympic team is selected. You fill out a questionnaire, and the only thing that matters is, "What is your PR".
The way things are looking I don't think anybody can even leave qualifying from the heats up to chance. Sadly, only 3 can make it to the Olympics.
ivyrunner27 wrote:
anyone know if these guys like each other? Are they friendly rivals or bitter rivals?
friendly.... I think. They've traded the conference titles for the past 4 years. Martin won in 2009 and 2011, Jock in 2010 and 2012. In 2009, none of them made an impact on the national 800m scene. In 2010, Martin got the All-American, while Jock was eliminated in the prelims. In 2011, Jock almost got the win, while Martin had a bad race. What's gonna happen in 2012?
I'll tell you what's going to happen. Jock will go for it at USAs. First 400 around 49.3 if conditions are good. He will die, but he'll hold on for third (1:45 low/ 1:44 high). Bob Andrews will slip in for 2nd with a 1:44 mid. Symmonds will be the last to kick and he will really crank for gold on the homestretch. 1:44.3 for him. He knows how to really gear up for a good one at the trials. Who knows about Andrews; he'll either actually be in it, or he'll eat it like last year. Something tells me the former will happen...
xxxxxx333333 wrote:
He was .02 ahead of Martin.
With his racing style he will get eaten alive by Symmonds and Andrews and if he tries to sit and kick he will have no hard experience doing it.
Jock is setting himself up for failure. It would have been much wiser in this race to go out easy and get some experience of sitting and kicking. Instead Jock misses another chance. The time isn't so important it was winning and the way he should have won that was.
He will have to be in phenomenal shape next month to withstand Symmonds and Andrews kicks considering both of their PR's are as good as or better than his.
4 weeks is a very short time to change your racing style, Jock might get another 2 shots to do so but that is dangerously little facing the competition he'll be up against.
Hmmm.
Last time I changed wasn't Jock on the WC team last year and Andrews sitting at home?
1 Nick Symmonds USA 30 Dec 83 1:44.17
2 Khadevis Robinson USA 19 Jul 76 1:44.49
3 Charles Jock USA 23 Nov 89 1:44.67 PB
note: position 21 on the 2011 world list (outdoor).
4 Tyler Mulder USA 15 Feb 87 1:45.59
5 Mark Wieczorek USA 25 Dec 84 1:46.00 PB
note: position 74 on the 2011 world list (outdoor).
6 Casimir Loxsom USA 17 Mar 91 1:47.89
7 Sam Borchers USA 25 May 88 1:48.91
8 Robby Andrews USA 29 Mar 91 1:51.68
The thing about the 800 is that it's easy to say, "Oh people should learn to run in the pack." But I believe some guys are just front-runners.
Just as in horse racing, certain horses have their styles, same thing in the 800.
The thing about leading is yes there can be some wind - but not normally a lot in a big stadium but you get to run way less ground. 800 meters exactly.
Let's say Andrews runs one turn in lane 3. That's an extra troughly 9 meters.
Well guess what at 1:45.00 800 pace, a runner runs 7.62 meters each second.
So by coming from behind, Andrews runs an extra 1.18 seconds.
I meant to talk about this in last week's Week That Was when everyone was going gaga over Symmonds 1:43./1:44.0 split at Penn Relays.
Was it impressive? Yes. But people need to remember that he's probably at least saving 1-second from what he normally runs in coming from behind as he's running in lane 1 with zero traffic.
With a guy like Symmonds, he might be saving more ground - 1.5 seconds. Throw in another .5 seconds for the running start and one can easily make the argument that split is like him running 1:46.0 open.
Fair point Rojo. However, I do think that symmonds will be in significantly better shape come the trials. He seemed to really perfect hitting it when it mattered last year. I remember him pretty much pooping the bed at pre and then coming back to win USAs and almost medal at worlds. This was in the span of a few months. I'm not saying he's going to necessarily run a world leader or anything remotely close to it. But, when it gets down to it, symmonds is a racer. He always has been, especially when it counts. And, as for Andrews... I think he'll be okay this year, just because he's focused on the trials, instead of NCAAs, as well. I realize jock had to worry about this last year, too, and still beat him. So, in a nutshell, the USA 800 has the potential to turn into something damn tasty. Symmonds, KD(?), Jock, Martin, Duane Solomon, Greer (????), Loxom... Probably forgetting some guys, too!
I don't know much, but I do know this....Chuck & Ryan just made their chances of making the U.S. Olympic team that much easier, by running the A standard. They "ONLY" have to make top 3 at Trials. Relieves a lot of pressure going into the Trials.
Also, neither Chuck or Ryan ran indoors....that is HUGE when it comes to maintaining a peak till late June/Trials.
Good luck to both of them.
Are you kidding? Running one turn in lane 3 isn't going to put you back 9 meters...
If it was that significant, kicking like that would work much less frequently than it does.
What is the A standard and how many guys have run times under the A standard during the qualifying window?
When do they have to run the A standard time by?
wow seriously wrote:
Are you kidding? Running one turn in lane 3 isn't going to put you back 9 meters...
If it was that significant, kicking like that would work much less frequently than it does.
The real deal here is that NO ONE EVER RUNS A CURVE IN LANE 3! The inside of lane 2 is usually as far out as they go in the 800m/1500m. Or if they do pop out to the outside of lane 2, it is only for the last part of the final turn to set up a stretch run.
The A standard isn't an issue for these guys, as it is relatively easy for them and they had plenty of chances to do it. Championship 800m races are pretty fast, unlike many 15s and 5s and 10s. Jock can get the in season AmC record of 1:44.70.
Bump. Looks like I was correct.
wowowowowow wrote:
So based on that he will be running 143.8 at the trials? Sorry but that's too big of a realistic improvement . Last year he had room for improvement. This year I doubt he will be able to maintain this fitness to the races that actually matter.
Irrelevant.
Martin ran fine. Something's obviously wrong with Jock since at least the semis.
wowowowowow wrote:
Bump. Looks like I was correct.
wowowowowow wrote:So based on that he will be running 143.8 at the trials? Sorry but that's too big of a realistic improvement . Last year he had room for improvement. This year I doubt he will be able to maintain this fitness to the races that actually matter.
want a medal?
coach d wrote:
Irrelevant.
Martin ran fine. Something's obviously wrong with Jock since at least the semis.
yeah, he peaked too early, a-hole. lol.