Khalid Khannouchi is definitely one of the top 5 all time greats of the marathon.
I had his training at one time but don't know where it is. He didn't do long runs very often, but built through them when he did, and definitely hammered the last parts of them.
Khalid Khannouchi Retires
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I remember reading about how he would end 22(?) mile runs with a couple of 4:30 miles on the track. As I could never run a 4:30 mile, that made an impression on me.
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Takes one to know one wrote:
Between his fascination with figure skating and writing tone, the best descriptor of Phil Hersh is "bitchy queen".
Seriously. That dude needs to chillax! -
I have no idea why wejo gives that 3rd string
journalist the time of day? -
wejo wrote:
I was going to ask you where you think he ranks all time. He's top 5 on my list for sure but I don't want to rank them without a little more thought.
Certainly not Top5. He never won a major championship and he is also not in the top 10 in terms of time despite running mostly flat marathons.
This is the list you need to compare him against:
Time Athlete Country Date Location
2h03:38 Patrick Makau Kenya 25 September 2011 Berlin
2h03:42 Wilson Kipsang Kenya 30 October 2011 Frankfurt
2h03:59 Haile Gebrselassie Ethiopia 28 September 2008 Berlin
2h04:23 Ayele Abshero Ethiopia 27 January 2012 Dubai
2h04:27 Duncan Kibet Kenya 5 April 2009 Rotterdam
2h04:27 James Kwambai Kenya 5 April 2009 Rotterdam
2h04:40 Emmanuel Mutai Kenya 17 April 2011 London
2h04:50 Dino Sefir Kemal Ethiopia 27 January 2012 Dubai
2h04:54 Markos Geneti Ethiopia 27 January 2012 Dubai
2h04:55 Paul Tergat Kenya 28 September 2003 Berlin -
malmo wrote:
I have no idea why wejo gives that 3rd string
journalist the time of day?
Heh, I'm guessing this little tidbit is why it got this thread: "I got an email Tuesday from Weldon Johnson, editor of the invaluable track & field / running website letsrun.com, alerting me to its exclusive story reporting four-Chicago Marathon winner Khalid Khannouchi has retired from competitive running." -
I've always had great respect for Khalid as a person and as an athlete.
Khalid ran one of his first road races in the USA at the Providence Downtown 5K which evolved to become the US National Championship.
I received a call from race director Charlie Breagy saying that there was some young Moroccan guy living in Buffalo New York who wanted to run the race but he didn't have any money in the travel budget to bring him in.
I was coaching Charlie McMullen and several other athletes in the Rochester NY area at the time and made arrangements for Charlie to give Khalid a ride to the race.
The guys stayed with me for the weekend and khalid slept in my basement and went on to run well in the race. Charlie gave him $30.00 for gas money for his efforts!
Khalid promised that he would come back and win the event one day and after several attempts of finishing in the top three he was good to his word.
He won the event in 1998 in 13.27 heading a field where the top ten ran 13.46 or faster.
Probably the best 5K he ran in Providence he failed to win. The 1997 event saw him finish 2nd to Ismael Kirui who ran 13.20 to Khalid's 13.24. The race was held on a course that was not super fast but had one of the fastest road 5K fields ever assembled with top 10 sub 13.38 ,top 20 14.00 or under.
Khalid's true talent was of cause in the marathon and he went on to enjoy a stellar career. -
Nutella1 wrote:
wejo wrote:
I was going to ask you where you think he ranks all time. He's top 5 on my list for sure but I don't want to rank them without a little more thought.
Certainly not Top5. He never won a major championship and he is also not in the top 10 in terms of time despite running mostly flat marathons.
This is the list you need to compare him against:
Time Athlete Country Date Location
2h03:38 Patrick Makau Kenya 25 September 2011 Berlin
2h03:42 Wilson Kipsang Kenya 30 October 2011 Frankfurt
2h03:59 Haile Gebrselassie Ethiopia 28 September 2008 Berlin
2h04:23 Ayele Abshero Ethiopia 27 January 2012 Dubai
2h04:27 Duncan Kibet Kenya 5 April 2009 Rotterdam
2h04:27 James Kwambai Kenya 5 April 2009 Rotterdam
2h04:40 Emmanuel Mutai Kenya 17 April 2011 London
2h04:50 Dino Sefir Kemal Ethiopia 27 January 2012 Dubai
2h04:54 Markos Geneti Ethiopia 27 January 2012 Dubai
2h04:55 Paul Tergat Kenya 28 September 2003 Berlin
Huh? How many of those you list have won a championship marathon? -
Another great of the EPO era retires.
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Nutella1 wrote:
Certainly not Top5. He never won a major championship and he is also not in the top 10 in terms of time despite running mostly flat marathons.
This is the list you need to compare him against:
Time Athlete Country Date Location
2h03:38 Patrick Makau Kenya 25 September 2011 Berlin
2h03:42 Wilson Kipsang Kenya 30 October 2011 Frankfurt
2h03:59 Haile Gebrselassie Ethiopia 28 September 2008 Berlin
2h04:23 Ayele Abshero Ethiopia 27 January 2012 Dubai
2h04:27 Duncan Kibet Kenya 5 April 2009 Rotterdam
2h04:27 James Kwambai Kenya 5 April 2009 Rotterdam
2h04:40 Emmanuel Mutai Kenya 17 April 2011 London
2h04:50 Dino Sefir Kemal Ethiopia 27 January 2012 Dubai
2h04:54 Markos Geneti Ethiopia 27 January 2012 Dubai
2h04:55 Paul Tergat Kenya 28 September 2003 Berlin
It's clear he's not the fastest. He has the 46th fastest time of all time, 41st if you excluded wind aided courses if I'm counting correctly. He's #28 on the all-time performer list.
He however had 2 world records and won the greatest marathon ever according to statisticians.
If you don't think he's top 5 of all-time right now, who do you put ahead of him? Tergat and Geb never won world titles either. Geb never has beaten the best.
As for the Hersh thing, I didn't put that on the homepage. Rojo did. I read it and it was so negative I wondered, "should we even link to this?" As of now its the only other news outlet with an article on Khannouchi's retirement so it warrants a link. We don't agree with everything we link to.
My main criticism of Mr. Hersh is he's not a runner. You can't just go run a marathon even if you said you would if you had a broken leg. It doesn't work like that.
I have no idea if in April 2000, whether Khalid really thought he had a good chance of getting citizenship by the Olympic Trials in May.
I have no idea how injured he was for the 2004 Trials. -
Slow Bob wrote:
Another great of the EPO era retires.
As for people speculating as to while he didn't run the Olympics or world's, I think it's legitimate to mention EPO.
That being said, I'm writing to take on Hersh.
I don't get why people like Hersh act like there were so many times he didn't run for the US.
Now if people are going to talk a lot about their love of the USA to get endorsements, and then not do it, I can see why that is more aggravating and people would have a right to be angry. It's sort of like someone who talks a lot about their faith all the time but then is out to 5 am on Saturday night/Sunday morning and not making it to church.
But I'm not even sure if that is the case with Khannouchi.
I probably should write an article where I take a real in depth look at Hersh's criticisms of Khalid. But here's a quick response before I go to bed. Hopefully, my quickness doesn't make me look like a fool.
Ignoring the fact that in my opinion, someone of Khannouchi's stature in the marathon shouldn't run the WCs as they are a step down in stature from a major to be honest but Khannouchi did run (and drop out of) 1 WC, the facts seemignly show that Khannouchi didn't regularly skip out on his patriotic duty as Hersh insists. The facts show that Khannouchi was chronically injured starting in 2001.
Let's go through the years, year by year when Khalid was in his prime.
Aren't we really talking about only the 2000 Trials when he didn't even get citizenship until 4 days before the event and he'd already run London the month before?
Does anyone know how much in advance he would have known about his citizenship? Does Hersh really expect him to pass up a 6 figure payday only to find out he couldn't run the Trials at all? Khannouchi's citizenship was being expedited. Unless Hersh know for a fact Khannouchi knew he'd get it 4 days before the Trials, I think he is expecting a ridiculous thing from Khalid. I mean Khalid's wife had moved to Madrid to try to help the whole thing.
2001 - Khalid did run the 2001 WCs and yes he did drop out. But does Phil remember that Khalid also dropped out of Boilermaker that year and that Khalid didn't finish any marathons that year. It's not like he did what a ton of top international stars do - which is show up at world's to please the federation and then drop out only to show up later in the year at Chicago or New York to pick up a big pay day. The world champs were his only marathon according to http://www.tilastopaja.org. So I dont see what Hersh is upset about for 2001. Khannouchi was hurt as shown by his lack of a spring or fall marathon.
2002 - not a world champinship or Olympic year and it was the best year of Khalid's marathoning life. Bad timing I guess for Hersh.
2003- world championship year. But guess how many marathons Khalid ran according to tilastopaja? Zero. So he's injured.
2004 - In the article, Hersh rips Khalid for not trying to run the 2004 Trials when Khalid had previously said he'd run it on a broken leg. Well the facts are that Khalid pulled out in December 2003 and the Trials were in February 2004. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/2003-12-05-notes_x.htm
So Hersh is upset that Khalid didn't wait until a month before the TRials to know he wouldn't be ready?
That doesn't make sense.
Does Hersh know he seemingly was 100% legitimately hurt because after not running any marathons at all in 2003, he didn't run a spring marathon in 2004 (according to http://www.tilastopaja.or - again this is me writing off the cuff with out emailing London to confirm). So Khannouchi is out from Fall 2002 to Fall 2004 and Hersh is irate that Khalid didn't run the Trials? That's crazy. Khalid didn't skip the OTrials to get rich in London as he didn't run London. He got healthy and ran Chicago that October. Not sure what Hersh is complaining about here.
2005 - world championship year but no marathon finishes for Khalid.
2007 - 4th in Olympic trials on about 2 months training.
Admittedly, I don't remember the specifics of everything back as to what happened over the last decade but can someone tell me where I'm wrong? (Unless Khalid ran but his results aren't showing up in Tilastapja) -
The MonBRO Doctrine wrote:
Heh, I'm guessing this little tidbit is why it got this thread: "I got an email Tuesday from Weldon Johnson, editor of the invaluable track & field / running website letsrun.com, alerting me to its exclusive story reporting four-Chicago Marathon winner Khalid Khannouchi has retired from competitive running."
Again, a little bit slower if you have to: I don't understand why wejo gave that 3rd rate journalist the time of day? -
I think K.K. was one of the best ever. Just like any athlete, especially a former world record holder, you must compare him against his contemporaries, and not doom him to mediocrity based on where his times now fall on an all-time list.
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Happy Times wrote:
I think K.K. was one of the best ever. Just like any athlete, especially a former world record holder, you must compare him against his contemporaries, and not doom him to mediocrity based on where his times now fall on an all-time list.
Your argument cuts both ways. If we compare every superstar against his contemporaries, they all, by definition, will stand out, thus rendering this element less meaningful as one attempts to rank the superstars. -
Of the top marathoners, one of the highest suspicion of EPO use, along with Da Silva, if only due to his country of origin, coupled with his spotty competitive record (did London or Chicago ever test for EPO during his time?)
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As an example, I would place Carlos Lopes, as a world record holder, Olympic record holder and Olympic champion, higher than Khannouchi, even only as a marathoner.
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Time Athlete Country Date Location
2h03:38 Patrick Makau Kenya 25 September 2011 Berlin
2h03:42 Wilson Kipsang Kenya 30 October 2011 Frankfurt
2h03:59 Haile Gebrselassie Ethiopia 28 September 2008 Berlin
2h04:23 Ayele Abshero Ethiopia 27 January 2012 Dubai
2h04:27 Duncan Kibet Kenya 5 April 2009 Rotterdam
2h04:27 James Kwambai Kenya 5 April 2009 Rotterdam
2h04:40 Emmanuel Mutai Kenya 17 April 2011 London
2h04:50 Dino Sefir Kemal Ethiopia 27 January 2012 Dubai
2h04:54 Markos Geneti Ethiopia 27 January 2012 Dubai
2h04:55 Paul Tergat Kenya 28 September 2003 Berlin
Read more: http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4508501&page=1#ixzz1qOYlA700
You see these times right here? They were run because of Khalid. The game changed when he dominated the roads. The best of his generation, for sure. London 2002 was incredible. -
how weird...I thought he was already retired...
How do you retire from running? Just run...if you end up fast then so be it. If you really enjoy running you'll do it for fun. -
That letsrun piece on his career was excellent. Very well written. Kudos. Made me really appreciate what a gem this letsrun is.
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Nutella1 wrote:
Certainly not Top5. He never won a major championship and he is also not in the top 10 in terms of time despite running mostly flat marathons.
This is the list you need to compare him against:
Being an all-time great means more than just one fast marathon. Going by the average of an athlete's 5 fastest marathons, Khalid still makes the all-time top 10.
1. Haile Gebrselassie - 2:04:57
2. Geoffrey Mutai - 2:05:03
3. Patrick Makau - 2:05:07
4. Tsegay Kebede - 2:05:45
5. Samuel Wanjiru - 2:05:50
6. Emmanuel Mutai - 2:06:03
7. Vincent Kipruto - 2:06:11
8. Khalid Khannouchi - 2:06:16
9. Martin Lel - 2:06:34
10. Robert Kiprono Cheruiyot - 2:06:34
Wanjiru aside, Khannouchi is the only one not still running. I.e. he is the best-ever from before the current era.
