Marathon Training Thread - Week Ending 3/25

Hi all.

I posted on here for a bit last year as Zattu. Some major sleep deprivation issues with our youngest seriously impacted my ability to do any kind of consistent, decent, training, so I simply stepped back from running, etc, to focus on sorting everything out.

Now, some months later, after a lot of effort, things finally seem to be coming back on an even keel (touch wood), so I have decided to step back up the running, hence my reappearance! :-)

My plan is simple. A 12 week base period, 4 weeks of hills and a 12 week marathon schedule, with the ultimate aim being Berlin in September where I want to start to get an idea what I can actually do over the marathon distance. Currently I am unfit (around 6:15m/m Marathon shape at a guess, but expect/hope to gain at least 40s per mile over the next 12 weeks), overweight (could do with losing at least 4kg, preferably 6-7kg), and have spent the last few months primarily in the 20-50mpw range. Added to that that it has almost been 3 years since I put a block of consistent training together it's obvious I have lots of work to do.

I am also sticking to what I have proven works for me in the past, so it's Lydiard all the way.

So........

Base week 1 of 12: c(urrent)MP = ~6:15.

1/2 effort = cMP + 20-30s

3/4 effort = cMP + 0-10s

6-8m tempo = cMP - 0-15s

Mon: 13.1m easy

Tues: 21.2m easy (midday - very hot out!).

Wed: am: 6m jog

pm: wu, 7 x alt 3's (mildly undulating route), cd (averaged 5:48m/m for the 3mins on, 7:03m/m for the 3mins off).

Thurs: am: 9m easy and hilly (Nutcracker loop). Weights session.

pm: 9m very easy.

Fri: am: 5.2m jog

pm: wu, 10m hilly (Nutcracker loop) @ 1/2 effort (6:37m/m), cd.

Sat: rest.

Sun: am: wu, 6m tempo (6:02m/m), c/d.

pm: 3m jog.

Total for the week: 101m.

Pleasing first week back, which, very importantly, felt right, which is the first time I have had this feeling whilst running since '09. Obviously some obligatory DOMS from going from low mileage straight back to higher mileage, but all manageable.

Going forward I will most likely alternate a tempo with a 3/4 effort on Sundays and will look to extend the other efforts in time/distance.

Will read through the thread in a bit, but I hope everybody's training is going well.

Some superb training going on as always, inspirational.

brum - congrats on the win, nice one.

80-90miles - incredible week, you're in at least sub-2:25 shape.

CTA - looking really good for London.

Pablo - think you're being smart taking some down time. Take care of the ankle.

Drey - best of luck next weekend.

kr - welcome back! Will email you later, my router went pear-shaped this weekend so only have poor internet access via my phone.

Goal Race: Salford 10k

Goal Time: sub-33:30

M - 5 easy / 8 easy

T - 8 easy

W - 11 (incl. 2 x 3M, 4 min rest - 5:38m/m, 5:48m/m)

T - 5 easy / 8 easy

F - 8 steady

S - 8 easy

S - 20 (incl. 12 @ 5:47m/m)

Total: 81

Weds was supposed to be the Canova 3 x 3M @ ~5:35m/m session. Felt ok during the first rep but couldn't stay with the pace on the second. Took this as an indication that I wasn't fully recovered from the previous Sunday run (and/or still tired from the prior 3 weekends of racing), so pulled the plug. Took it easy until Sunday. Was happy with the section at marathon effort as this was over an undulating mix of roads, footpaths, gravel, dirt and grass.

CTA - big week. Not long for us now.

80-90miles - great long run and mile reps session.

Did you guys get your race packs last week?

pablo - I assume you were having problems when you didn't post last week. Hope the two weeks off clears everything. You need it. Stay in touch.

1st timer - the long run indicates that you are on track for 2:45. Good work.

categorically - good training. Nearly there now. Focus on sleep and diet these next couple of weeks as well as your training.

VF - 3 digits. Nice. I was tempted to throw in an extra mile at the end of my run yesterday just to hit 100 but decided against it!

Drey - GOOD LUCK!

samblackbones - good luck at Carlsbad. I hear it's fast.

Asia - hi. I can't think of any off the top of my head but if you look on

www.runnersworld.co.uk/events

you might have some luck. Another good bet is Parkrun, a free 5k race that takes place every Saturday at 9 am in parks around the country. London has loads of them - Bushy is the most famous/popular. You need to register in advance by printing a bar code. You can do this at

www.parkrun.com

kr - glad you're back. I almost emailed you the other day to see how you were getting on. Hopefully you can have a good block of uninterrupted training these next few months.

marmite - Nice long run. Looking forward to meeting you at London.

Goal Race: Boston

Goal Time: ?????

Mon: 10

Tues: 10

Wed: 8

Thur: 20

Fri: 8

Sat: 8

Sun: 16 total (13.1 race + warm up and Cool down)

Total 80

I think my confidence is shot right now. My week stunk. My 20 miler on Thursday felt terrible. It was slower then my one two weeks ago with less hills. And my legs felt shot for a couple days. But took it easy and thought I would be good for the 1/2 on Sunday. The race went terrible. VF runner warned me it was a tough race, but I was off pace even before I hit the hills. What was worse was that I was surprised I was going so slow because it felt hard. After that my mind was shot as well. Finished about 2:30 slower then I wanted. Plus, I have not been really happy with a race since Sept. Really I have about 10 days more to train for Boston, I just want to make sure I get a quality week in this week. Hopefully that can really help me turn my running around, at least mentally.

Good job to everybody

brumrunner - If you blew up, but still finished 1st you must have ran the guy you were chasing into the ground! Nice race!

Pablo - I had a real problem with spraining my ankle over and over again because I would never let it heal. Good luck with the recovery.

Nice job to VF runner, CTA, Samblackbones, kr and others hitting big miles... when do you guys have the time, I can't imagine running 20 more miles then I did this week

Goal race: Boilermaker 15k

Goal time: 51

Next race: 5k, 31 March

Mo: 10 (7:12)

Tu: 11.5 (7:25)

We: 10 (7:36)

Th: AM 6.5 (7:42) / PM 13.5 (7:13), progression (8:05>6:34)

Fr: AM 4.5 (7:47) / PM 8 (7:45)

Sa: 7 (7:28)

Su: 16 (6:53), incl. 5 @ 6:21avg

Wk: 87

YTD: 847

time for a down week. i was surprised how easy it was to get up to this volume. happy i was able to hit that pace on Sunday with taht kind of mileage in my legs. hoping it doesn't catch up with me this week.

Goal Boston sub 2:29

M: 50'

T: 60'

W: 8 x 800m w 400m rest (15' wm / 15' cd)

H: 65'

F: 65

S: 155' progression

S: 70'

~ 83 miles

Solid week. Looking forward to Boston.

Great to see all the posts.

marmite/brum - cheers for the welcome back guys.

brum - big week and quality 5k. Very nice!

80-90miles - those are two very impressive sessions. Surely way under 2:30 must be on if you can knock those out?

pablo - from what you've posted it does sound like some downtime would do you good. I made the mistake of pushing on before when my body was telling me otherwise and I lost several months before I felt right again. Glad to see you nailed the sub-1:09 goal whilst I was away.

categorically - very nice week!

Drey - have you done the same (15km @ ~MP and a 3*2km) for the last week of taper before?

muebele - sounds to me like your legs need a bit of jogging to freshen up rather than chasing quality. Sometimes it takes time to absorb and benefit from workouts.

Good to see people posting some good training coming towards spring marathon time. For me it will be my third spring of not marathoning, for various reasons, but it does mean I get to watch some cracking races!

brumrunner : i guess the person you were chasing down blew up worse. nice 25

CTA : feeling control in mile repeats is essential. nice work

80-90 : i like that 4 by 4 mile workout in the long run. i'm going to mix up my long runs with workouts a little more in future cycles. just starting the MP stuff now in it, but i can see how there are a lot of different ways to work with things.

pablo time off will be good for you. you'll recover and come back much stronger. with the work you have been putting in 2 weeks off will be good

1st timer very nice long run. that's right where you should be id say

categorically i know that feeling of nearly falling asleep on a run. your body is ok or even good, but your eyes just needs sleep

VF runner nice 100 mile week. way to work the marathon paced stuff in the long run. that pace will come down the next time you do the MP in the long run.

drey quick

samblackbones i feel like im in right about the same shape you are. i'm shooting for sub 240 but 243 might be more reasonable right now. goal is revised a bit each week up or down. nice tempo for and intervals for such a big week

hans e solid week. nice long run. putting in the strength work

kr impressed you can jump right back into the 100 mile weeks. i have been lingering in the 60s

marmite that long run with MP shows your strength. nice work

i've never responded to this many people but i wanted to give it a try. always enjoy looking at the different weeks.

My week was good:

Race: Country Music Marathon, April 28

Goal: 2:40

M- 7 miles (8 min avg)

T- 20 miles (6:39 avg) Tried to get 12 miles at MP. It was more like MP effort than actually pace. Better than 2 weeks ago but strenght is still developing. after a few miles of not hitting pace i just pushed a little harder and about got there. i realized i should have done that from the start. hilly course as well so that affected some times. MP miles in 6:22, 6:22, 6:23, 6:22, 6:30, 6:12, 6:08, 6:46 (half mile hill), 6:09, 6:15, 6:07, 6:08, 6:13.

W- 6 miles (8 min avg)

TH- 5.5 miles (8 min avg)

F - 7.8 ( 8 min avg)

S - 12 miles. 7.6 mile tempo run in 5:46, 5:42, 5:47, 5:46, 5:52, 5:45, 5:41, 3:29 (.6 5:48 pace) . good run.

Sun - 4.1 miles

62 miles for the week.

I wore my brooks t7s for the 20 mile long run. i thought they worked fine. my last few miles were still rolling pretty well. i felt like i could have picked it up. does this suggest they are good to go for the marathon, or could things get exponentially worse in the last 6 miles?

calves were a bit beat up for the next 2 days. by saturday they were basically back. they still held me a little bit back on my saturday tempo run, but i basically hit half marathon pace.

Quick post from me this week i'll look over everyones posts when I have more time but away with work in Aberdeen with a mobile internet connection.. lots of work and little time! Also just moved house before heading to Scotland for the week so manic times! I've copied and pasted below...

Manchester Marathon is in 5 weeks now

Goal 2:18

Week Beginning 19th March

Monday AM: 7 Miles 49:39 Avg 7:06

PM: 10 Miles 70 Mins (approx - forgot Garmin so wore Diesel wrist watch)

Tuesday AM: 6 Miles 42:07 Avg 7:01

PM: 11 Miles 1h15:04 Avg 6:49

Wednesday AM: 6 Miles 42:51 Avg 7:09

PM: 12 Miles including 8 Mile Tempo 41:15 Avg 5:09. Splits 5:13, 5:13, 5:16,

5:08, 5:06, 5:09, 5:07, 5:01. Was looking to average under 5:20 so did this a

lot quicker than planned. One of the other 2 guys with us was just doing 6 mile

and took it out. Felt better at end than I did in middle which is good sign.

Thursday 13 miles 1h28:54 Avg 6:50.

Friday 7 Miles 48:18 Avg 6:54

Saturday 14 Miles including 2 miles warm up, Platt Fields Park Run 5km 15:11 (Splits

4:51, 4:55, 4:53), 4 mins rest, 3 x 1 mile off 90 in 4:51, 4:49, 4:49, 6 Miles

long warm down 42:53 Avg 7:09. Needed to get finished early so chose to do

session including Park Run because it meant getting started by 9am.

Sunday 22 Miles 2h28:39 Avg 6:45. Had to get this out of the way at 7:30am because

had tons to do having moved house this weekend.

Total 108 Miles

kr – to be honest I have not done this taper before a marathon before. This is my first “real” marathon. I ran in college (14:3x and 30:1x) and then once I was out I went to early morning runner and my training was quite inconsistent and included only easy runs. During the 2 years I have been out I had done two marathons, both barely under 3 hours, but only on very limited training (30-40mpw).

BTW… Good luck with your training; you’d be surprised how quickly you get into shape… it took me less than half a year to get from 40mpw to 115mpw and I think I am not too far from my college years.

muebele – Running 20 miler two days before a 1/2 is a great workout week but I would not expect anyone to come back with a strong half marathon; especially after you already felt tired on Thursday. So no worries, but I still hope you get that quality session in this week to turn the tables; at least psychologically.

Foogo – Nice long run and tempo! I have read some good reviews about the T7s. And they look great! :)

Brum - 99 in singles, nice

VF - welcome to the century club. It's funny how it feels easy by the time you get there. You can't run 100mpw without being in shape to do it.

80-90 - I've done some 12 mile tempos but not longer than that. Nice long run, by the way.

1st timer - Trimming a few pounds can make you more efficient. Make sure you get all the carbs and calories in the couple of days before the race, though. I think I made the mistake of eating too light before my last race. It didn't end well.

Drey - Good luck next week. Looking forward to a race report. Take that Thursday workout easy. You are in good shape already.

CTA - the hay is in the barn for me at the end of this week.

Stormin - I'm always impressed by your tempos.

Nice job guys. You guys are really rocking it. It awesome just to see all the crazy workouts everyone is doing....

I'm looking forward to having a fun time in Boston in 3 weeks. It will be a slow race for me, as I've seemed to hit a bit of a down period post-Houston/vacation. Oh well, I've got a streak to keep going.

As with pablo, I won't run another step in the month of April after Boston, then will slowly build back during May. Base building June, July, August. Then September and October will hopefully be sharpening for New York.

Unfortunately, my first marathon as a Master's runner (40) doesn't seem to be going as planned. Oh well. It happens. Plan to get a physical, et. al. after Boston since it seems like the right thing to do when you turn 40....

I hate going to the doctor, unfortunately....

Drey - obviously take what I'm saying with a pinch of salt as you'll know your body best, but certainly I would struggle to run a fast marathon on Sunday if I were running two such voluminous efforts in race week. Essentially you are asking your body to run 1.5 marathons at ~ race pace across the week. Horses for courses obviously, but my last week would have something like 20 x 45m/55m sprint/float and a 2k time-trial or 2 x 2m @ MP with everything else jogging......

Foogo - I wore the Brooks T7 for Berlin last year. I had some calf cramp issues after half-way but I believe that was a lacing issue combined with lack of training rather than anything to do with the shoes. I have a pair put away that I am saving for all my races this year, so I'd certainly have no qualms about wearing them for a marathon (in fact I'm intending to wear them again for Berlin this autumn). I'm a big fan of them. There's something about them that just feels fast, despite them feeling more substantial than other flats.

kr - I am planning on doing both sessions very easy; for the 3*2km I was planning only something around 6:20 per rep with plenty of rest between... I am afraid to just run 7 minute pace the whole week. I think I would feel feel sluggish by the time Sunday comes around. But I am cutting down on that 15k. :)

foogo I wore t'6 for my last and will agin this time (pretty sure). The one thing I did was took out the super flimsy t'6 insert and replaced it with the insert from a regular Brooks trainer (Ghost I think). This gave a tiny bit extra cushioning and a little more shape under my arch. Worked perfectly.

W/E 25/3/12

Mon AM 8.61 mil(7:16 ave)

Tues AM 5.12 mil(7:18 ave)

PM 6.81 mil with 12 x 1mins off 30 secs rec

Weds AM 9.44 mil(6:58 ave)

PM 5.66 mil(7:09 ave)

Thurs PM 8 mil (10 mins 5:20),(1 mile 5:03),(10 mins 5:35)

Fri PM 9.35 mil (6:55 ave)

Sat PM 21.16 mil (14 mil@5:55)

Sun AM 13.18 mil (6:52 ave)

Lack of quality this week as recovering from blow up in Liverpool Half. Tues session went through the motions. Thurs session not quick enough but tough undulating routes against the wind.

Sat session was pleasing as felt comfortable in the heat.

Still non the wiser what time to gun for at London though.

Looking forward to NoEAA 12 stage this week.

Goal Race: Delaware Marathon 5/13

Goal Time: 2:51

Mon: am- 5 @ easy pace; pm- 6 @ easy pace

Tues: 9 @ 7:20ish pace

Wed: 12 with 7 @ 6:20 pace

Thurs: am- 5 @ easy pace; pm- 8 @ moderate pace

Fri: 15 @ 7:10 - 7:20 pace

Sat: 7 @ easy pace

Sun: 17 with 8 @ 6:18 - 6:38 pace

Total Mileage: 84

Overall this was a good week for me. This is my first week with any doubles since the fall, and it helped me tie my personal best for weekly mileage.

Thanks for the feedback on the T7s. I like the idea of adding in a standard sized shoe insert... as long as i have one that fits the curved t7

Thanks for the feedback all...

Drey: Amazing week, I'm really looking forward to seeing how the marathon goes for you. I think you will be well inside that 2.25 time. Good luck.

Marmite: Shame the session didn't pan out for you the way you wanted but well done on making the right call and pulling the plug on it. So easy to get carried away and make yourself ill. I honestly think you will be more like sub 33 minutes than 33.30 during the 10km race.

Kr: Moster first week of training back. I wish my body could take those kind of miles. What time are you hoping to hit for your marathon.

Foogo: Thanks for your feedback about the suggestion. I have another marathon based session this week. 10km in 35 minutes, then 15 minute break, then I'm racing a half marathon, trying to run the first 10 at race pace (2.30 pace), then I will try to pick up. Will warm up and warm down it will give me about 23 miles. Hopefully it will go ok! Superb long run and tempo effort for you.

Stormin: Amazing week. Can't wait to see what you run in Manchester.

Keep up the good work all.