Should high school guys be running 80MPW???

no more than 40miles per week, otherwise burnout will result.

Split the difference. Do 60 mpw

Why not run the 80 MPW? You readily admit you don't have the talent to be unbelievable on any given level. Test yourself. Run the 80. Hit 100 for a week for the hell of it. Maybe, just maybe, you'll get strong as shit and have a great cross season.

I don't see anything wrong with it, but I wouldn't do more. Run the "1000-mile summer." Lots of strides, hill sprints, maybe some up-tempo without overdoing it when feeling good. In your case, I wouldn't jump right to 80. Even if you averaged 70 per week, that would be solid.

There is no formula that says if you run this many miles you will improve or get hurt. You can get overuse injuries running low miles.

Focus on quality workouts and a mileage amount that inables you to recover from previous workouts. Pay attention to recovery and you should be injury free and successful

I can't answer the question for you, but I can tell you that most high school runners, even Foot Locker guys, do not put in this many miles. Marc Bloom, when he was publishing his Harrier cross country magazine, would do profiles of Foot Locker nationals guys based on their answers to a survey the guys were asked to complete prior to Nationals about their training. Most were in the 60 mile per week range, but some did some killer workouts as part of those 60 miles, and others did not. And there were a few outliers - 40 miles a week, 80 miles a week.

My son was a very successful high school distance guy, sub 9 3200 and sub 15 cross country, and the formula his coach used was to increase weekly miles by 10 each year in high school - so 30, 40, 50, 60 by senior year. The other key was year round consistency, but with a few short breaks at the end of each season - a week of so off for relaxation. Seemed to work well.

My concern about your plan is that you say you are weak, and you don't give your present mileage. Big jumps in training are usually associated either with injury or burnout or both. For most guys, running is a long term progression - like learning a musical instrument or a foreign language, it is better accomplished by steady progression over a long time frame - my opinion, anyway. Suddenly bumping summer miles up by 30 or 40 miles a week might work, but is more likely to leave you either dreading your runs, or getting totally fatigued, sore and/or injured.

Why not start some small doubles now? Jog 2 or 3 miles in the morning 4 or 5 days a week. That is an easy way to get some extra strength. Add some hills to your daily runs if possible - that will add some strength.

A couple of thoughts:

In my experience, high mileage is just as likely to cause injury as high intensity. Balanced training components (mileage, hill work, pace work) and paying attention to supplemental work (flexibility and strengthening, nutrition and hydration, sleep, etc.) are the key elements. Yes, you can "balance" the training with high mileage, as long as mileage alone is not the focus of your summer.

Regarding xy's comment about his son's team limiting mileage by age: That's a reasonable approach when you have lots of athletes in the system, biding their time. It's a good way of minimizing injury concerns by capping the rate of development within a *group* setting, but it doesn't really tell us much about what an *individual* can and should do.

60 mpw to 80 mpw in successive off-seasons is a pretty big jump. Sagarin's 70 mpw recommendation seems solid. Additionally, what are you maintaining in-season for Track? That's probably a better measure of what you're able to sustain going forward, since that will be your starting point for building summer mileage.

Dan

http://www.VOQTraining.com

Sorry, I should learn to read - you did write that you were doing 60 miles a week consistently over the winter. Sorry. What are you doing now, though, in track season? Did you stay at 60, or drop it down? When my son was running, he ran 60 more or less consistently each week, except toward the very end of track season when he dropped it down in preparation for the few really big races he was planning to run.

As far as dkap's comments, my son was on a small team, and most of the other guys were running inconsistently and were doing nowhere near the miles my son did. So the 30, 40, 50, 60 plan really was tailored specifically for him alone - he did doubles junior and senior year, and then would run with the other guys in the afternoon, and then sometimes add on a few miles on his own before coming home for dinner. Like I said, it worked well for him, zero injuries, and a very happy, successful high school running experience.

That's another problem..my mileage has dropped to about 50 now because we have meets every Thursday and Saturday. Although my season is going to end the first week May so even though it just started I really only have about 7 weeks left. I am 9:40-9:50 3200 guy in Southern California so I am not going to even advance out of league finals.

Nothing wrong with that. I plan to go ther this summer after my track season.

I went from 55-60ish during the summer before my senior year to 70-80 the winter after that cross country season. it's an individual thing, mileage. You'll have to answer that question yourself.

i went from a n average of 60 per week to 120 per week in something like 4 weeks. My legs didn't fall off and I didn't die. Less thinking, more running.

It is not volume that tears you down, it is intensity. You could easily run 80 mpw as a par of a base training phase over the summer. the key is to not do any high quality work at that time. When the quality does start during the season, bring the mileage down. High mileage and high quality is a lethal mixture for young runners.

I don't think 80 miles a week as a goal to work up to during the base phase is unreasonable for 16-18 year olds. I would doubt that would be too much for 3 weeks for 2 or 3 times a year. Averaging 80 miles a week for the entire year, which I did at that age, may lead to problems down the road. More so psychologically, then physically.

A kid with moderate talent that could physically adapt to that workload will dominate in high school, or at least hold up good compared to more talented runners running half as much. But it get's tougher when those undertrained guys catch up and that's where the mental burden becomes a challenge. Eventually, that can be overcome, but when the dramatic improvements level off, and others are pulling ahead, some are going to struggle with the game changing. Then they might lose confidence and underperform based on their potential. But that's life. There are always going to be people with more advantages and successful people don't use that as an excuse, they just always strive to be the best they can be.

Always holding back a little is best in my opinion for younger runners. I don't think high school is a time to be doing everything possible to be at your best. Unless you know you aren't interested in competing further than high school. Which of course describes 98 percent of high school runners.

Possible but unlikely.

Cap at 50-60/week and work on bringing up the quality and muscle power -- without overdoing it. Roughly speaking you need ~54 4x400m speed to run a national class 1600/3200 (4:15/9:10).

If you can handle it without getting injured, I don't see why not. Up until SR year I had run 30-40mpw at my highest mileage in season and didn't even train in the off-season. Before SR year XC started, I decided I wanted to get recruited and so had to run faster. Summer before SR year I built up to and ran 70-80mpw subsequently dropping my 5k pr from 17:35 to 16:10. Throughout the winter, before outdoor track started, I put in 2 months of solid 80mpw and ended up running 9:20 in the 3200 (previous best was 10:00). So yes, 80mpw does work

dsrunner has the day off wrote:

Possible but unlikely.

Cap at 50-60/week and work on bringing up the quality and muscle power -- without overdoing it. Roughly speaking you need ~54 4x400m speed to run a national class 1600/3200 (4:15/9:10).

two

Not necessarily. Probably on the average though. But you are right. Mileage isn't everything. He will have to race 800's and get down to 1:57-8 and that can't be neglected. Which means 400's in practice at 56-60.

I ran 4:08 and 8:46 but I needed those hated 800 meter races.

Ralphy wrote:

If you can handle it without getting injured, I don't see why not. Up until SR year I had run 30-40mpw at my highest mileage in season and didn't even train in the off-season. Before SR year XC started, I decided I wanted to get recruited and so had to run faster. Summer before SR year I built up to and ran 70-80mpw subsequently dropping my 5k pr from 17:35 to 16:10. Throughout the winter, before outdoor track started, I put in 2 months of solid 80mpw and ended up running 9:20 in the 3200 (previous best was 10:00). So yes, 80mpw does work

This.

Trying to drop repeat 400s sub 60 in practice is asinine and will guarantee a very short career. Mileage now, speed later... much later.

xy wrote:

As far as dkap's comments, my son was on a small team, and most of the other guys were running inconsistently and were doing nowhere near the miles my son did. So the 30, 40, 50, 60 plan really was tailored specifically for him alone...

Ok, that changes things ... and reads quite a bit differently than your first post.

dedicated high schooler wrote:

That's another problem..my mileage has dropped to about 50 now because we have meets every Thursday and Saturday.

You've only dropped 10 mpw in-season, which isn't bad at all coming from a base-building focus. 70+ mpw during the summer shouldn't be a problem.

Dan