Your thoughts on Upstate NY ??

Buffalo, Rochester and Syracuse have some nice suburbs. The cities themselves pretty much suck. There can be nice towns out in the country but a lot of them are poor and show it. People out in the rural sections can be just as conservative and redneck as the best from Mississippi. You don't live here unless you like snow and wind.

If you like cloudy weather and high taxes then the staggering abundance of fresh water is a bonus I guess? I wanted out of there so bad that I could have gone to Cornell on a Regents scholarship for less than $2400 a year and I didn't even consider it at the time. The fact that it was an Ivy league school with State School tuition didn't even occur to me for another 20 years.

Cold weather but no good skiing, and I didn't ski at all back then. Springtime was five days in the second half of May, it could be too hot and humid to sleep comfortably just a week later. By the middle of October it is Parka weather. Or it could be cold and rainy for days at a time in mid July, which is really hard to digest.

Year later I went back for a month having seen just about all of North America and I was impressed with how clean Rochester was compared to places like Houston or Richmond or even the East Bay in Cali. Lots of good employers and 40 minutes was about as bad a commute as you could get unless you were coming up from Dansville. (Which a LOT of people used to do back then.) I would caution you that the cleanliness aspect doesn't apply elsewhere in the region?

Buffalo has always been the most industrial and depressed of the three cities. There's actually a joke sheet floating around the Internet along the lines of "The Ten Reasons Why Buffalo is different from everywhere else." Number Five or Six mentions an 80 percent Catholic population. I don't think they covered the crack houses within a half mile of the State University?

Years ago there were more engineers employed in Rochester than in 31 states- still some spillover from those days even with the recent implosion of Kodak.

I can remember someone from Knoxville, Tennessee saying that there was nothing in his whole state as nice as Canandagua Lake, but then again that was at the end of June. One of my neighbors growing up was from Georgia and he felt about the same. Bear in mind that Kodak Pensions and Health Care were a big part of the equation in the latter case. Career wise for a lot of those people back then they were in utopia.

This is the one place in the USA where they are seriously looking forward to global warming.

I worked in upstate NY 2 summers ago in the thriving metropolis of Speculator. I personally loved it. The are lots of opportunities to get outdoors and do fun stuff like hiking, kayaking, canoeing, fishing, etc. Plus I had a lot of different places I could run as well. There were a ton of black flies up there that will eat you alive though. And since I was only there during the summer I didn't experience any of the harsh winter weather, though I heard a lot of stories.

If you include Albany as a part of upstate NY, it is a decent place.

Just remember that NY has the highest taxes in the US, except for possibly CA.

Sales tax, at least 7% (in most counties it is higher, usually 8%). Even on clothing.

If you income is over $20,000 per year, you are going to pay 6.75% in income tax. This is disgusting. I just toss $5000 per year and get nothing in return.

Property taxes are insane. I pay $4300 per year on a house assessed at $182,000.

NY is nice is a lot of ways, but it is not worth the cost of living here. I am trying to get out. Seriously consider the taxes when making a decision where to live. I wish I did.

Weather used to be a huge negative but honestly relative to many parts of the country with severe and scary weather it doesn't seem too bad.

It seems to be improving quite a bit too with global warming. I was thinking of moving south but I'm going to wait. My last visit to SC was really the pits.

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That's it in a nutshell. I've been talking young couples out of moving to the Finger Lakes over this specific reason for close onto 30 years now. I'm not sure I could recommend it even if you inherited a free roof over your head and got to telecommute for a decent salary. Because the free roof over your head could easily cost $500 a month to heat plus maybe $300 a month in property tax and the roads are going to eat your car alive.

The money sure doesn't show up on the road surfaces either. It does end up in the school systems to some degree but most of it goes to subsidizing NYC.

Even before $4/Gallon gas if you are going to do the small town fifty miles from the Interstate thang, you still need to be able to tread water on $30,000 a year. In upstate New York that's more like $40,000, which all of a sudden means that you are in Education (which still pays really well in New York State,) Public Administration or Law Enforcement in a place like Auburn or Seneca Falls.

Your property is not likely to appreciate all that much, the house I grew up in has sold three times since 1995 at declining price points each time around. I LIVED off the appreciation on mine for most of that same period in Colorado and the taxes were less than half that much. Mostly people are there because their relatives are there.

Maine is no picnic on the employment front but you can probably live on half as much as upstate New York if you stay far enough away from the coast.

I've lived here all my life. I have been to other places on extended visits- not vacations- I have brother who travels the world and buys a house wherever he goes (buying a house to him is like me buying a pair of running shoes).

I have to say that I LOVE upstate NY. I understand all the problems people are mentioning. I enjoy the change in seasons- I've learned to enjoy any extreme in weather- it makes the perfect days that much better.

I live just south of the Finger Lakes and would move up there in a heartbeat if I could get a job up there- I'm happy where I am, though.

The small cities are kind of cool if you overlook the bad things. But, then NYS is a great city with a lot of horrible aspects.

As far as the weather, we rarely get the extremes like tornadoes, earthquakes, hurricanes.

Except for the recent flood, most weather issues are a day or two of inconvenience.

If you like the country, it's beautiful. It's very safe where I live- women don't hesitate to go out running, at night, alone.

I would say that the quality of life if you have a family and a decent job (like I do) are great.

Ithaca is an awesome college town, the surrounding areas are beautiful.

The Catskills and Adirondacks are awesome.

I've lived in this area (Rochester) for 45 years, and my job has taken me pretty much everywhere else in the US. So, I'll give you some pros and cons:

First the cons. The weather from about Dec 1 to April 1 is awful. Mainly because of how cloudy it is. It is a real winter for sure, and if you like that sort of thing, you'll like it here.

It is also a conservative area - very Republican. A con if that isn't your thing. Most people view this area as not a wild and crazy place, but an ideal place to raise a family.

Now some pros. I wouldn't trade the weather here from about May 1 to October 1 with anyplace in the country. There is a really nice running community, and local clubs are great.

The local economy hasn't boomed, but it never really crashed either. There is an article in the local newspaper today that says all area towns have economic growth rates of +3% right now. Housing is ridiculously affordable - I'd say prices are 1/3 what they are downstate. And, all the suburban school districts are very good. The cost of living is low, and commute times and traffic are almost non-existent.

From time to time I wonder if I should have gotten out of here. And I come back to this: if the weather was just a bit better and more sunny in the winter, I'd say this would be pretty much the ideal place to live for me. But, the weather can be a big factor.

One of my favorite towns anywhere is Skaneateles, N.Y. The lake is wonderfully clean and cold, and the surrounding rural roads make for hours of great cycling, although it's a bit hilly for running. There are vineyards, great restaurants, and fantastic farm stands. It's wonderful in mid-summer.

Grew Up there wrote:

Maine is no picnic on the employment front but you can probably live on half as much as upstate New York if you stay far enough away from the coast.

Taxes in Maine are no bargain.

Glad to see someone finally mention the vineyards. If you're into wine, the finger lakes region can be a lot of fun.

Upstate NY is amazing in the summertime, especially around Saratoga.

It's a commonly held view that upstate NY subsidizes downstate, but the opposite is true:

http://www.rockinst.org/pdf/nys_government/2011-12-Giving_and_Getting.pdf

Upstate NY has been hemorrhaging industries, jobs and population for decades. The effects of which are immediately apparent passing through any of the cities or towns.

[quote]Grew Up there wrote:

The money sure doesn't show up on the road surfaces either. It does end up in the school systems to some degree but most of it goes to subsidizing NYC.

/quote]

I have wished for many years that NYC and Long Island could become the 51st state. I guess they can take Westchester County just to give them something worth anything at all.

GAWD I've been to Long Island twice and couldn't wait to leave.

OK, I love NYC but it is a drain on our economy and the schools (due to their clientele) are horrible.

They're the reason Cuomo is going to bankrupt the state with his Teacher Evaluation System.

happyfeet4235 wrote:

Buffalo... some nice suburbs. The cities themselves pretty much suck. .

Buffalo used to be the second richest city in the country-- after NYC-- back when the Erie Canal was economically important.

You can still see the former opulence in Buffalo and a lot of smaller upstate cities. Even some small towns have 10-15 room mansions that were once great but are now falling apart...

In any case-- as others have mentioned-- real estate is cheap...

I just moved to Tennessee from upstate New York (real upstate New York-150 miles north of Albany) and miss the Plattsburgh area in the Adirondacks very, very much. Living on Lake Champlain is beautiful and it's positioned close to Burlington, VT - a really beautiful city (and state!).

Thanks for providing Exhibit A to previous post re: incorrect belief that upstate subsidizes downstate. Other way round. If NYC, Long Island, and Westchester became a state, the remainder of NY would be in an even worse economic jam.

runn wrote:

OK, I love NYC but it is a drain on our economy and the schools (due to their clientele) are horrible.

They're the reason Cuomo is going to bankrupt the state with his Teacher Evaluation System.

[quote]Got out of there wrote:

Thanks for providing Exhibit A to previous post re: incorrect belief that upstate subsidizes downstate. Other way round. If NYC, Long Island, and Westchester became a state, the remainder of NY would be in an even worse economic jam.

[quote]

Much of Upstate is doing just fine, Skip:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2012/02/27/washington-des-moines-best-cities-for-jobs/

As a resident of a re-emerging Schenectady I can tell you first hand.

I'm glad I live some place else...