SUB-4 MILE Training

I agree 100%. Training and natural ability has nothing to do with it. All you need to do is get in a rabbited time trial and ride the wave to sub 4. Not long until all the coaches catch on and every college has 15-20 sub 4 milers on their roster. I've got my coach to set up a time trial for me in a few weeks. My PR is 4:19, but I'm pretty sure this is my big shot!

This guy is right! wrote:

I agree 100%. Training and natural ability has nothing to do with it. All you need to do is get in a rabbited time trial and ride the wave to sub 4. Not long until all the coaches catch on and every college has 15-20 sub 4 milers on their roster. I've got my coach to set up a time trial for me in a few weeks. My PR is 4:19, but I'm pretty sure this is my big shot!

4:19 to 3:55 is probably not realistic. Try to take it down in chunks - 4:10, 4:04, then go for sub 4. Good luck.

pipedreamz wrote:

I have better speed than endurance: 50s in 400m, 14:35 5k, 24:40 8k.

I wouldn´t say that you have better speed than endurance, if you don´t just look your race results. Don´t do the common mistake "to focus on your assets" and think it´s the speed. If you´ve ran 14.35 5k off of that training, you have great natural endurance capacity (probably a very good VO2Max) to build with proper endurance training.

My advice would be that you start doing doubles, always one really easy run in a day or so. Avoid things like "4 mile tempo (basically a race every time)" for the most of the year. Do some sub-LT (lactate threshold) runs throughout the year, especially in the base phase. Keep doing some medium paced-progressive long intervals and shorter ones close to race pace, but keep the lactate levels low on these in the base phase. Touch your top speed from time to time.

another canuck wrote:

There are some coaches (including me) that believe that for those longer, tougher intervals the rest is less relevant than the performance. But hows this for a black and white example-David Moorcroft ran 4x 1k or 4x600m as hard as he could . Apparently he did that for several years. He started at 2:40 and 1:30 and ended up at 2:24 and 1:22! He did not worry about the rest.

Should be noted that Moorcroft also ran a lot, and there was a lot of sub-maximal aerobic running especially in the winter. That´s increasingly intervals with the HARD interval sessions that you mentioned.

"January-March (13 weeks) Endurance Consolidation

During this period of Winter training maximum weekly

mileages would be increased to the range of 90-100mls. This level of training was usually maintained for blocks of 3-5 weeks before taking a 1 week recovery/rejuvenation break. During this easier week training mileages would be reduced to the range of 50-70mls to meet DavidÕs specific recovery

requirements at that time. Atypical training week for this period of approx. 100mls is given in table 3. It is immediately obvious from the table that DavidÕs training during Jan-March is highly orientated towards the development of a sound aerobic/endurance base with the bulk of his mileage covered at sub-maximal aerobic pace."

That´s increasingly IMPORTANT... should that be.

bump. this is a terrific thread. I'm a 4:08 miler looking to work my way down, and am loving this thread.

aspiring sub 4 wrote:

bump. this is a terrific thread. I'm a 4:08 miler looking to work my way down, and am loving this thread.

Do the 400 workout listed earlier and you'll make great progress.

More of the shorter stuff 200's, 300's, 400's. Add more strides, Jim Ryun did strides most mornings - easy, medium, medium-hard. The occasional full accelerations up to 100meters (just some 50m accelerations can work to start) suggested are a good component too. That base stuff is fine but I think you need to get fast.

How much do sub 4 guys focus on 800 meter work?

I've seen a lot of 800 meter guys include 4x400 @ 1-2 seconds faster then 800 pace, 2x(600-400-200) @ 800 pace.

Is there a place for this in mile training, say once every two weeks?

usedabe wrote:

I should also add that my 3:59 was my 'perfect' race. Everything lined up correctly with the pace of the race. I was able to stay out of trouble and inside. I heard splits 60, 1:59, 2:59. I would call it a perfect race because it was even-split and I wobbled across the line and over the last 20m. Absolutely nothing left. So if conditions were slightly different I might not have gone under.

do you have a video/ results/ who are you? I'd love to see that race.

Re: the recommendations for the 4:06/08 milers to do a specific 400m workout to progress down to /4:00.

I realize the hypocrisy here but these are the 'plans' I would caution against. One workout will not make you more efficient at a race. I would look at the energy and (generally accepted) speed requirements for a 4:00 race and find a way to maximally balance your abilities in both.

It took me 4 years to figure it out - well - maybe more like 1.5yrs to figure it out and 1.5yrs to get it right (I was actually very close the year prior). I think if you can honestly assess your abilities and take the time to work your way to your goal, you could feasibly go from 4:06/08 to 3:59 in 2yrs or less (I went 4:07 [3:45], 4:01 [3:45], 3:59 [no outdoors] progression).

Unless you can find an experienced coach to work with, you're going to have to put in a lot more work/thought into your training - learning what successful coaches have done, listening to your body, constantly evaluating your progress (and how your training is effecting different areas of your fitness), etc. I don't think anyone here (including me) is qualified to 'coach' anyone to that level which is why I'm trying to keep this as 'this worked for me' rather than saying 'do this'.

To the guy asking for video/name: yes, video exists. I'm not in it all that much since there was a good race up front between a few guys and I was near the back for much of the race. I prefer anonymity.

I'm guessing Sam Bair Jr.?

Yeah your right something seems to definitely have changed in training for the mile.

all of a sudden a few too many responses suggest that 400s are the key. No they are not! In fact in my opinion they are always misleading if you are not doing other longer intervals as well.

Assuming one has developed a decent base, then the key intervals are combinations like; 2 or 3 sets of 1000m+500, 1200+300, 800+600+400, all at slightly slower than race pace at first and building to slightly faster than race pace-ultimate goal-2:59+42

Separately, run a 3k at a new pr level. Its not just speed, its strength too.

Always be in control of your training. Too many runners let a schedule dictate their training. It took me 4 years to figure it out. Lots of miles may have worked for the next guy but for me if was 60-75 per week. Morning runs 5 days per week (intensity was never a worry for me on these runs. They ranged from 30 to 45 mins) Monday's and Wednesday's I would do shorter quicker reps. Tuesdays and saturdays would be more grueling intervals like 4x2k and 6-8x 800m. Wednesday's and Friday's I would do 45-1 hour of moderate steady running in the afternoon. Thursdays was tempo followed by 200-300m cutdowns. Every 2nd or 3rd Saturday I would do a time trial. Long runs on Sunday's at 80-100 min. If I was feeling bad I took the day off. Simple as that. Circuit training 3 times a week. May not work for everyone but it did for me....

As I mentioned in a previous post, the training has not changed or evolve. The reason there are so many college guys running sub 4 now is that there are more time trial 'races' with a couple pacers on over sized tracks. That is it.

I don't think you could be any more wrong. The availability of valuable training information has greatly changed how most athletes train these days. Before the internet, there were coaches that knew what they were doing and, when they had an athlete with the ability, could make that athlete a sub-4 miler. But many coaches simply weren't good (or knowledgeable) enough regardless of the athlete. I believe this effect has taken place for high school times far more so than college and pro. I also believe that since our HS coaches are becoming more knowledgeable, there is also a lot of carryover once those athletes reach college. Yes, other factors help too: better surfaces, better shoes, rabbits, etc. But when you explain a sub-4 mile with "time trials with pacers on over-sized tracks - that's it" your only goal seems to be to denigrate performances. I can assure you most of these athletes would not be running under 4:00 without proper training - even on a 1 mile indoor track with no corners, a tailwind, and a dozen rabbits.

No. But I would say 'no' even if I was.

Forthcoming is forthright.

I've never coached nor run a sub for minute mile, but from what the OP wrote, I'm guessing that touching on sub 4 pace with regularity, year round, wouldn't be a bad idea. Reps of 150-300 with plenty of recovery could easily be included in a high volume general prep phase.

This thread has had a quite a bit of advocating for training the aerobic system as a means to acheiving a sub 4. By all means, this is required. However, the OP said he never felt really comfortable at sub 4 pace. I think that the OP needs to work 3-5 times per week at sub 60 pace. This can be done as part of a double or included at the end of a tempo workout.

Here is the original schedule, modified to include more fast pace (but doable) training

Mon AM: 8 miles easy PM 4 miles easy + 4 x 150 @ 21.5-22.5 with 250 jog recovery. 1 mile CD (14 miles total)

Tue: 6 x 1k @ 3 min (2 min recovery) + 4 x 200 @ 30 with 200 recovery jog, 2 mile wu/cd (10 miles total)

Wed: AM: 5 miles easy. PM 5 miles easy (10 miles total)

Thu: AM: 4 miles easy. PM: 6 miles with 4 @ tempo (5:20ish pace) + 5 x 300 @ 46-47 with slow 100 walk recovery. 1 mile CD (12 total)

Fri: 10 miles easy

Sat: 8 miles, from easy progressing to 5:30 pace + 10 x 100 @ 14-15 seconds, jog back recovery. PM 4 miles easy

Sun: 12-14 easy.

This is quite a bump in training mileage, but should address the two areas which you've self identified as a weakness. Efficiency at race pace, and aerobic endurance. There is relatively little "high end" aerobic running and the schedule represents a phase where you are still building from where you are now, to the point where you have the ability to crank out harder, race specific workouts.