If you couldn't make the olympic team in the U.S. but you could in another country, would you switch citizenship?

Blowing.Rock Master wrote:

In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must

1. apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily,

2. by free choice,

3. and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

.

So if a US citizen applies for a foreign passport but not with the intention of renouncing their US citizenship, they can be a dual citizen.

that sounds a little recursive...but this is the US government we are talking about.

Intent may be attached or predicated on the go to country's view on dualcitizens- some require you to take an allegiance oath and i bet that would trump your attempt to be an athletic transfer only a googlesearch for you-American Samoa Fanelli,

Sailor Bob wrote:

Blowing.Rock Master wrote:

In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must

1. apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily,

2. by free choice,

3. and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

.

So if a US citizen applies for a foreign passport but not with the intention of renouncing their US citizenship, they can be a dual citizen.

that sounds a little recursive...but this is the US government we are talking about.

is the promise ring dead? wrote:

Simple question, would you switch countries in order to compete in the olympics knowing that you would be on that country's olympic team?

I believe this would only work if you have the "A" standard for whatever event you're in and dual citizenship with the U.S. and another country.

NOT a simple decision. If you choose to take that route you can never compete for the US again. Also, by Olympic rules there is a three-year waiting period before you can compete for your new country in an Olympics so it's not something that can be done at the last minute.

Fanelli needed on this topic wrote:

Intent may be attached or predicated on the go to country's view on dualcitizens- some require you to take an allegiance oath and i bet that would trump your attempt to be an athletic transfer only

a googlesearch for you-American Samoa Fanelli,

As the State Department says, "Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct." If an application for citizenship to another country requires a pledge of undivided allegiance to that country, I would think that the choice to apply for such citizenship is strong (and perhaps even sufficient) evidence of the intent to give up U.S. citizenship.

I was surprised that no one mentioned Gary Fanelli earlier. Of course, he did manage to get to the Olympics through American Samoa, but it really came off as just another one of Gary's goofy stunts. It may have reinforced his image as a sort of running clown, but I don't think that it enhanced his reputation as a competitive runner.

interesting question... I've lived in Oaxaca for 4 years and I love it here, but I will never become a citizen of Mexico. Not that the USA has a good government, c'mon it's owned lock, stock and barrel by the corporations; it's just that the Mexican government is, uh, not so great either!

Of course I'm 54 years old, so it's a moot point as a runner!

I used to have this fantasy at age 19, but I was a 1:57 800 man so I would have looked very bad in an Olympic heat...

joho wrote:

That's like cherry picking a road race to guarantee yourself a win. Would you rather be the winner of the Local Yokal 5K, where you had no competition or finish 5th in a national level 5K where the top runner were?

Not really, you're just taking an easier route to the same race because you already failed at the first route.

joho wrote:

Why don't you just switch sports and try to make the Olympics in something less competitive? Archery, badminton, handball maybe?

If it were really feasible to pick up those sports and make the olympics (those sports are very competitive), then of course I would! Unless I really disliked the sport, why not?

Avocado's Number wrote:

I was surprised that no one mentioned Gary Fanelli earlier. Of course, he did manage to get to the Olympics through American Samoa, ...

American Samoa is part of the US, and native born Samoans are US nationals but not US citizens. Fanelli didn't have to change his nationality to run for American Samoa. Americans also have the option to run for Guam, Puerto Rico, or the US Virgin Islands. Of course depending on what the federation rules are for those territories.

Avocado's Number wrote:

As the State Department says, "Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct." If an application for citizenship to another country requires a pledge of undivided allegiance to that country, I would think that the choice to apply for such citizenship is strong (and perhaps even sufficient) evidence of the intent to give up U.S. citizenship.

Apparently swearing verbal allegiance is not enough. Marc Rich (Iranian oil delaer pardoned by Clinton) tried to claim that by swearing undivided loyalty in Spain, he was no longer a citizen. This did not wash, and he spent 10 years in Schweiz waiting it out.

Apparently now you have to try really hard to lose your US citizenship. There is some legislation floating around that would make it illegal to renounce your US citizenship - they would end up making it the same as being Catholic or a Muslim.

As far as I know, this is the current law:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1481

yes

LOL. Jag, i think that was his/her point....love that sarcasm there, pretty sure they knew you're a marathoner....and I'd do it in a heartbeat, at least as long as there was NO shot at making the US team.

jaguar1 wrote:

sportfan wrote:

wild coincidence!!! I'm only 14 seconds off the A standard also.

in the 400

Marathon.

They have a name for people who do that. It is called a traitor. To renounce your citizenship, just so you can go to the olympics is ridiculous. If you cant make the top three in the U.S., you stand no chance of medaling. By analogy, imagine a U.S. Marine switching sides during a battle or war for some personal gain. Complete nonsense!

Avocado's Number wrote:

As far as I know, this is the current law:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1481

I've read the same, but in practice (according to various blog posts) it takes much more.

There are +1mm Americans living in Canada, many of them native born US citizens who become naturalized Canadians. None of them has been forced to renounce Canadian citizenship, despite, "swearing allegiance to the Queen of England".

I have switched citizenship to run in the Olympics in numerous meetings with executives of large corporations and have never had any issues. Why in the world would anyone get angry about this?

Granted, I work in marketing and usually deal with CMOs. CMOs tend to be the more "socially aware" executives...

I am in my mid-30s and switching citizenship to run in the Olympics is a move that came of age with my generation.

Sailor Bob wrote:

None of them has been forced to renounce Canadian citizenship, despite, "swearing allegiance to the Queen of England".

Rather, "None of them has been forced to renounce *US* citizenship..."

I think there's a big difference between starting out with dual citizenship (like if one of your parents is from a different country) and switching citizenship.

If you are born with dual citizenship in the US and another country and choose to run under the other country's flag because your mom or dad is from that country, that seems just fine to me. Nothing says that you have to compete for the US just because it's harder to make the team.

If you are born only an American citizen and switch citizenship in order to compete for another country, I think that is pretty questionable. Going in the other direction, as great a runner and guy as Lagat may be, competing internationally for both Uganda and the US in his career is a problem for me. And the people who just get paid to switch like Shaheen supposedly being paid $1 million by Qatar, just shouldn't be allowed.

^^^

Kenya, not Uganda. Duh.

What about athletes who fail to get the top 3 at the US trials but are clearly world class (Carl Lewis for the 1992 100m and I think Calvin Smith for the 1984 100m when he was the world record holder)? How would Americans feel if those guys had switched to another country so they could compete?

It's something athletes face all the time in sports like rowing, where only one competitor / team is allowed per country.

Also, what about someone like Frankie Fredericks, who was never going to win a relay gold because he's from Namibia? How would you have felt if he'd been able to switch to the US?