Alan Webb's the new recordholder for the high school mile but I say Jim Ryun is still top dog. With cinder tracks, technological and physiological disadvantage compared to today that guy was pure animal.
Alan Webb's the new recordholder for the high school mile but I say Jim Ryun is still top dog. With cinder tracks, technological and physiological disadvantage compared to today that guy was pure animal.
I agree and what's more, Ryan ran sub-4 in a pure high school race. Who else has done that? (Although Nate Brannen won his sub-4 by 8 seconds, but alas - not American).
Monty
2001-Alan Webb runs 3:53 to finish 5th, and the #1 miler in the world runs 3:49 to win the race.
1965-Jim Ryun runs 3:55, and beats the #1 miler (and '64 1500/800 gold medalist)in the race.
Clearly, Ryun's run is the most impressive and made the most impace on the track scene.
There are really only 2 guys to pick from in this category; Ryun or Webb. Usually, I'll side one way or the other fairly fast but not on this debate. Ryun competed internationally as a prep so...I'll go with him and for the reasons you cite above.
uphill both ways wrote:
Alan Webb's the new recordholder for the high school mile but I say Jim Ryun is still top dog. With cinder tracks, technological and physiological disadvantage compared to today that guy was pure animal.
I understand about the cinder tracks and technology, but how does Webb have an unfair physiological advantage?
Keep in mind Alan does have the record; that's the #1 factor in my book, although there are other considerations.
According to one of the books about Ryun, he was prone to sickness. He's suffered from a bunch of problems throughout school. A hernia, appendicitis, impaired balance and dizzy spells from ear infections, always coming home sick, unable to eat meals, throwing up after every race, illness at the Olympics and so forth were some of the problems mentioned.
Maybe Webb's suffered similarly in his younger years that I'm not aware of so maybe it's unfair to say Ryun has some disadvantages in this area.
But still the tracks are more advanced, as is the science of training, nourishment, and recovery, as well as the art of racing.
Thanks, that's just what I was wondering.
I would definately say that this one is a no brainer. Ryun all the way
I agree with Ryun too. I will also agree that it is unfair to give Ryun an advantage just because he had those physical problems. That's not Alan Webb's fault. Ryun wins though because of all the other reasons mentioned in this thread.
Webb though will be thought of as a better 1500 meter runner/miler when all is said and done, and no, I don't think he has to hold a world record to be thought of in that way.
Of course he has to hold a World Record to be considered better. Ryun was destroying the top guys in the world and held the WR. A runner is never considered GREAT until that runner can run faster than anyone else ever has. Does anyone consider Paul Tergat to be one of the greatest marathoners? He is one of the best right now, but he can't beat KK and hasn't set a WR in that event. Now at the half marathon, he is by far the best. Of course Webb has to set a WR to be considered one of the greatest.
No way man.
Martin Liquori was a genius on the track in high school. He did low mileage out on the grainy beaches of New Jersey and spent most of that time staring at hot blonde bimbos wearing skimpy bikinis. Damn those chicks left nothing to the imagination. He may have even been distracted a few times by the magnetic allure of high stakes, bling-bling, fast rolling gambling out on the boardwalk. Just think if he took his training more seriously, there is no telling what kind of mark he would have made!
potential wise im not sure, webb ran relativly low miles in highschool, 50, while ryun ran 90 with some really killer repeats, i think webb can go way below 3:51, 3:47 perphaps? He just has to stay healthy and put ALL his energy towards it.
remember, ryun made the olympic team as a junior in HS and had a PB of 3:39.0 for 1500m.
to date, webb is a one hit wonder...essentially a ~4 minute miler with one sub-4 outdoors.
ryun won the nat'l meet as a sr in HS, setting an AR in 3:55.3, beating 3X olympic champion y running a 53 last 440y.
imagine what an equivalent effort in a rabbited effort surrounded by the electric atmosphere of the Pre meet would produce.
if webb runs a faster mile than 3:53, i suspect it will be years from now.
more than likely, he will imulate bob beamon who was never able to surpass 27', let alone 28' or 29'. that is, webb will be fortunate to be sub 4 again.
alan webb is a momma's boy. thats why he had to go back to virginia to train. he's too much of a baby to stay that far away from home. what does this say when he is going to compete internationally? is he just going to quit and go home. in my opinion, alan webb will never be the best in the world or in the US.
you can go to Ryun's camp page and watch, while in high school, as he beats an aging but still talented Peter Snell. Snell, in the all-black NZ uniform, reverses the "Once A Runner" scenario and tries to walk down the novice but Ryun holds on
its the sub 4 minute performance in a HIGH SCHOOL ONLY race that does it for me. According to his biography, Ryun had a friend bring him through in 3:01-ish and then he ran the last lap, in 55 seconds, all by his lonesome self. Wasn't anyone anywhere within 100 meters.
anyway, you can read about Ryun's training and performance on TF&N, where they have serialized his book
The "Best" here is Ryun for sure, and it's not even close
Webb does suffer from melon-head disease, though, which is comparable to Ryun's conditions.
1. Gotta think Marty trained pretty hard.
2. No casinos in the 60s.
3. Essex Catholic is nowhere near Atlantic City. Not many "hot blonde bimbos wearing skimpy bikinis" strolling the streets of Newark.
I thought the story went that Marty's coach egged him on, challenging that Marty didn't have what it took to be a champion.
Liquori responded by relocating to the coast for the summer before his senior year to train on the beaches. Yeah, it must have felt like training on quicksand, earth moving underfoot, water soaked training shoes, but the mileage wasn't a whole lot... And where did he stay, a summer house with other stumbling drunk high school party pushers? Wouldn't shock me at all. At least he escaped the "Stolen Car Capital of the World" Newark, New Jersey for a brief period.
Marty Liquori, perhaps not better than Ryun, but better than Webb.
We each have our opinions, but I believe that Webb will become a very successful international runner. I believe that he returned home so that he would receive the best training he believes possible. Guess we will soon see the results.
Monty