4 guys I've never heard of go sub 2:05 in Dubai

Bobby1 wrote:

And know one suspects drugs as a reason for the SUDDEN increase in marathon speeds?

I don't get what you're saying. Are you saying that you know one person who suspects drugs? But then, why the question mark?

I don't get it.

A 2:04:23 debut!!!! That is freaking sick!

That course is obviously smoking fast under cool, windless conditions, maybe faster than Berlin/Rotterdam. Boston-fit Hall is 2:05 on that course, which still puts him out of the top 3, but top 10 for sure.

kudzurunner wrote:

Hall might as well just give it up. Become a short order cook and specialize in French toast. Add a dash of cinnamon to the eggs and milk and they'll come back for more. Or thump a bible somewhere.

He's so done.

Nutella1 wrote: There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that this guy is a thread for the WR, unless he becomes another Duncan Kibet...

Sounds to me like there IS some doubt in your mind. :)

they have never maxed out on the track. that's why their

PBs on the track out not in line with the marathon.

Not because they are not using drugs.

Nutella1 wrote:

Alright, I am not Ventolin^3 but I also can make predictions:

First the facts:

- Fastest Marathon debut ever on a legal course

- guy is still young (around 21....well, you never know)

- Dubai is always warm weather, race temp >60F

- pacing was off/all over the place

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that this guy is a thread for the WR, unless he becomes another Duncan Kibet...

It was 50s with a fair amount of shade, and the pace was really not that erratic.

Boss T wrote:

yyy wrote:

obviously a combo of more talent going to the roads (money)

and new undetected drugs. don't be naive.

I love that: a 47 second high school 400m runner trains like a middle distance runner and runs 3:53 and it's the rebirth of American distance running, but a 21 year old world junior cross country champion and 59:42 (and probably better than that) man runs 2:04:22 and it's some magic bean that's just been imagined.

I'm investing in beans!!!

The pace looked quite even to me. Many km's were clicked off within 1 second of each other. I was wondering how they managed to keep it so even, the pace setters sure did an excellent job! I'm very impressed with both races, though I wish there'd been more coverage of the women's race, like the men's.

If somebody had asked me a week ago what I thought the medal podium would look like in London for the marathon, I would have said there was at least a 50% chance of a clean Kenyan sweep, and that it was utterly inconceivable that one doesn't win the gold. I may have to rethink that a little, and I'd downgrade utterly inconceivable to very unlikely).

Reality Bath wrote:

That course is obviously smoking fast under cool, windless conditions, maybe faster than Berlin/Rotterdam. Boston-fit Hall is 2:05 on that course, which still puts him out of the top 3, but top 10 for sure.

America - Land of the Dreamer.

PrestonEsquire wrote:

It was 50s with a fair amount of shade, and the pace was really not that erratic.

Where is your source for 50 degrees?

In terms of pace:

KM 4 00:03:01

KM 5 00:02:54

KM 6 00:03:02

KM 7 00:02:55

Did they have pacemakers? If they did, they failed.

runn wrote:

kudzurunner wrote:

Hall might as well just give it up. Become a short order cook and specialize in French toast. Add a dash of cinnamon to the eggs and milk and they'll come back for more. Or thump a bible somewhere.

He's so done.

Should every player on every team who didn't make it to the Super Bowl give up?

I don't get that attitude by some (I assume very young and naive posters) that there should only be a very small group of runners- the ones with a chance to win a medal.

I'm 53. No, I was merely voicing the frustration that I'm sure some very good American marathoners must feel: Yes we are gifted, yes we train very hard, yes we keep upping our game, but how can we REALLY compete with that? The rules keep changing. Hall's 2:06 in London has now been rendered second-tier. (Let's leave aside his wind-aided 2:04; it happened, but it doesn't tell us much.)

One thing is very clear: the old chestnut that marathoners didn't reach their peak until their late 20s or early 30s is almost certainly yesterday's news, not today's truth. That myth was the byproduct of the strongest young racers opting OUT of the marathon for the shorter track races. Now they're not. And it turns out that they're blowing the doors off the record books.

Sammy W., RIP. You showed us what was possible. Now your prophetic Olympic run has flowered.

No, of course Hall should keep on running against international fields and finishing third or fourth. I'm not REALLY suggesting he should just...give it up. But winning? I doubt it.

geb possibly booted off the team unless he runs 2"03

My predictions :

Given this is just the start of the year and athletes are super fit trying to make their countries respective Oly teams , we will have very fit athletes not making Oly teams running very fast.

Bad for americans as this may mean , no american male will crack the top 100 times for 2012 on "legal" marathon courses.

We are slapping americans on the back at running 2:09 , when the standard has become sub 2:06.

I wonder how all these 21 year olds squeezed in all the long slow distance that takes up to a decade to develop the aerobic system fully, while chasing skirts and working on the farm.

Short course.

Yes, know one ...Drugs is the new secret, which know one noes about except for smart, yet anonymous, skeptiks at letsrun...Maybe we should create some organizations charged with controlling athletes for drugs.

Bobby1 wrote:

And know one suspects drugs as a reason for the SUDDEN increase in marathon speeds?

Boss T wrote:

yyy wrote:

obviously a combo of more talent going to the roads (money)

and new undetected drugs. don't be naive.

I love that: a 47 second high school 400m runner trains like a middle distance runner and runs 3:53 and it's the rebirth of American distance running, but a 21 year old world junior cross country champion and 59:42 (and probably better than that) man runs 2:04:22 and it's some magic bean that's just been imagined.

In other words, faster than Paul Tergat, 5x World XC champion and 12:49 5,000/26:29 10,000/59ish 13.1 runner, ever ran, and that in his first try?

Nope, nothing fishy about that.

And Webb is way more than a guy with some speed who trained like a middle distance runner. If not for Ritzenhein, who was good enough to either beat or give a fight to every junior in the world that year, except the one who became the greatest cross-country runner the world has ever seen, everyone would have said he was unbeatable in XC his senior year too.

Course was 26.18 miles long. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

endurance is talent wrote:

I wonder how all these 21 year olds squeezed in all the long slow distance that takes up to a decade to develop the aerobic system fully, while chasing skirts and working on the farm.

So much for Lydiard.