Fagan comes clean on his positive EPO test

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  • GOML
    registered
    9 years ago 01/16/2012 10:57pm CST
    re: Point to make
    Forum Index
    Point to make wrote:

    At the end of the day regardless of who the culprit is or their personal circumstances this is just a "sport". Allthough Martin is a World Class athlete, what has he ever won. Nothing I would say. So I can not see how he has cheated anybody out of anything of significance?

    I now look on the sport of distance running as a bit of a joke and I genuinely feel sorry for these guys out bursting their balls. The return for the input is so fractional. I can not get my head around it.

    Take a 2:15 marathon guy. Probably has to train twice a day to get to that level, watch what they eat, dont even think about having a social life, probably not be able to work and earn any money worth talking about. Where is the return?

    I have more respect for recreational runners who enjoy their lives than athletes who go their whole career and the biggest race they win is a national championship and live a meager existance.

    I sincerely hope for his own sake Martin Fagan never runs competitively again and starts enjoying his life. Its the wake up call alot of "athletes" need to give themselves, Its just a pity he resorted to what he did rather than assessing whats more important in life.

    Life is short ! ! Enjoy it while its here ! ! Just my humble opinion ! !

    "You are not allowed to renounce that which you never possessed." - Quenton Cassidy, OAR, end of the chapter "Breaking Down" p. 123 (more recent publication)
  • fakeJournalist
    9 years ago 01/17/2012 12:02am CST
    re: wejo
    Forum Index
    wejo wrote:

    fakeJournalist wrote:

    Lets the real writers be the journalists. Just do your job and post the article without the snotty all-too-familiar letsrun taunt attached to it.

    Drug cheat is a descriptive term in my book.

    Yes, very good Wejo.

    Doesn't change the fact that it's a snotty taunt. You guys should clean up your act and try to be real journalists for a change. First calling out 20 something yr olds about their decisions to transfer while knowing NOTHING about their individual situations (Masters and Casey).

    Grow up and try to find a sense of humility.
  • betterbutter
    9 years ago 01/17/2012 12:18am CST
    re: fakeJournalist
    Forum Index
    fakeJournalist wrote:

    wejo wrote:

    fakeJournalist wrote:

    Lets the real writers be the journalists. Just do your job and post the article without the snotty all-too-familiar letsrun taunt attached to it.

    Drug cheat is a descriptive term in my book.

    Yes, very good Wejo.

    Doesn't change the fact that it's a snotty taunt. You guys should clean up your act and try to be real journalists for a change. First calling out 20 something yr olds about their decisions to transfer while knowing NOTHING about their individual situations (Masters and Casey).

    Grow up and try to find a sense of humility.


    are you kidding? this website is run by essentially a group of 11 year old girls. all they like to do is trash those they despise and promote those they fall over, all under the guise of "journalism." like i keep saying they don't even put a writers name on their articles instead using a general letsrun.com. now, if you're trying to be respectable wouldn't you put the persons name on the article?
  • brogan1
    registered
    9 years ago 01/17/2012 12:34am CST
    re: betterbutter
    Forum Index
    betterbutter wrote:
    now, if you're trying to be respectable wouldn't you put the persons name on the article?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy9NyUKcGQw
  • Bagehot
    9 years ago 01/17/2012 12:50am CST
    re: betterbutter
    Forum Index
    betterbutter wrote:

    are you kidding? this website is run by essentially a group of 11 year old girls. all they like to do is trash those they despise and promote those they fall over, all under the guise of "journalism." like i keep saying they don't even put a writers name on their articles instead using a general letsrun.com. now, if you're trying to be respectable wouldn't you put the persons name on the article?

    You mean like the Economist? Not to say Letsrun is on that level, but you cite a poor criterion for journalistic respectability.
  • Kornheiser
    9 years ago 01/17/2012 1:01am CST
    re: ukathleticscoach
    Forum Index
    ukathleticscoach wrote:


    Most of could only wish to have his talent, then he still needs to cheat

    I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. Is Fagan somehow indebted to you because your parents gave you crap genes?
  • Was Fagan on SSRI in Arizona?
    9 years ago 01/17/2012 1:20am CST
    re: nag1234
    Forum Index

    It sounds to me like Fagan might have had a psychotic break/nervous breakdown from anti-depressant withdrawal. This has been reported in the medical literature.

    I'd be curious to know what SSRI Fagan was on for depression. Maybe some psychiatrist in the Flagstaff area who didn't know what he was doing prescribed and elite athlete medication for his depression.
  • Was Fagan on SSRI in Arizona?
    9 years ago 01/17/2012 1:24am CST
    re: Was Fagan on SSRI in Arizona?
    Forum Index

    I'm not trying to make an excuse for Fagan and the EPO use, but I think it would be good for us to know more about the circumstances, such as the depression meds he was on and which psychiatrist in the USA, if any, was overseeing his mental health condition(s).
  • J.R.
    9 years ago 01/17/2012 1:28am CST
    re: Point to make
    Forum Index
    Point to make wrote:

    Take a 2:15 marathon guy. Probably has to train twice a day to get to that level, watch what they eat, dont even think about having a social life, probably not be able to work and earn any money worth talking about. Where is the return?

    Thats an awesome post and good points. Thanks for sharing.

    Living one's life how one chooses is more important than money, and/or living in ivory castles. It's for each of us to decide the life that we choose.
  • Was Fagan on SSRI in Arizona?
    9 years ago 01/17/2012 1:28am CST
    re: Was Fagan on SSRI in Arizona?
    Forum Index

    The only other elite (or former elite) I've heard of who used anti depressants was Adam Goucher, and i heard he went off them because he thought he couldn't push himself as hard on them.
  • J.R.
    9 years ago 01/17/2012 1:29am CST
    re: Was Fagan on SSRI in Arizona?
    Forum Index
    Was Fagan on SSRI in Arizona? wrote:

    I'm not trying to make an excuse for Fagan and the EPO use, but I think it would be good for us to know more about the circumstances, such as the depression meds he was on and which psychiatrist in the USA, if any, was overseeing his mental health condition(s).

    Excellent point, and the best reasons that people should stay AWAY from drugs, far away from them. They are dangerous and destructive.
  • Usually use a different name.
    9 years ago 01/17/2012 2:42am CST
    re: Bagehot
    Forum Index
    betterbutter wrote:

    are you kidding? this website is run by essentially a group of 11 year old girls. all they like to do is trash those they despise and promote those they fall over, all under the guise of "journalism." like i keep saying they don't even put a writers name on their articles instead using a general letsrun.com. now, if you're trying to be respectable wouldn't you put the persons name on the article?

    Ridiculous. Weldon and Robert have done our sport a fantastic service by providing this website. Letsrun.com has elevated running to more than just "hobbyjogger" status. I am not saying I support everything they do, but overall they do a good job. I think they handle drug cheats the way they should be handled, and the way they bash drug cheats is good for the sport. As a fan of running, I do not want anyone to think it is acceptable under any circumstances to take PEDs, and Weldon/Robert show no mercy on them, which is good. If we EVER want the sport to be as clean as it can get, we HAVE TO TAKE THE DRUG PROBLEM SERIOUSLY. We cannot be making excuses for them and feeling sorry they got caught. I feel bad for Fagan's personal life, and hope he gets it in order, but I do not feel bad that another drug cheat has been caught.
    And what is the big deal with not putting your name on the articles? Only 4 people work for this site: Robert, Weldon, and Employee #1, Employee 1.1. It's not like they are putting "anonymous" at the top.
  • Was Fagan on SSRI in Arizona?
    9 years ago 01/17/2012 4:22am CST
    re: J.R.
    Forum Index
    J.R. wrote:

    Was Fagan on SSRI in Arizona? wrote:

    I'm not trying to make an excuse for Fagan and the EPO use, but I think it would be good for us to know more about the circumstances, such as the depression meds he was on and which psychiatrist in the USA, if any, was overseeing his mental health condition(s).

    Excellent point, and the best reasons that people should stay AWAY from drugs, far away from them. They are dangerous and destructive.


    Agreed. Anti depressants may do good in some cases, but I don't think any elite athlete should be on them. I don't know if Fagan was on one or not, but I question whether Fagan's initial depression symptoms (whatever they were) were serious enough at the time to warrant Prescription serotonin uptake inhibitor (SSRI) anti depressant treatment. I don't know if he was on an SSRI or not, but these are SERIOUS medications, and rapid withdrawal from them can in some cases cause a psychotic break. I'm not in any way trying to defend of justify Fagan's actions, but it'd be nice for us to know more about what was going on at the time, if at all possible.

    Rapid withdrawal from anti depressants is VERY DANGEROUS - and The medical literature has reported cases of psychotic breaks. You can have otherwise normal but depressed folks ending up in a psych ward on anti psychotics as a result. The medical literature makes mention of cases like this. This is why you NEVER stop/taper off anti depressants without being done very carefully under a doctors supervision. All too often though, someone otherwise normal but with a little depression gets prescribed an anti depressant, doesn't take it for awhile, and then does things that would otherwise be "out of character".
  • Vinny Mulvey
    9 years ago 01/17/2012 6:34am CST
    re: Kenneth Coleman
    Forum Index

    Ive only just seen this thread today and wanted to make a few things clear to those people saying I'm a hypocrite and that I'm defending Martin Fagan etc.
    I want to make it clear that in no way has my opinion on drugs in sport changed since Cathal Lombard tested positive. I still fell very strongly against drug use and still feel that a 2 year ban is a joke. I still think that athletes should get a lifetime ban for drug use. I in no way condone what Martin has done and have made this clear to people on the Internet and to Martin himself; I am in no way defending Martin fagans actions and cannot be clearer about this.
    On a human side of things I am supporting Martin with his depression. Having encountered depression with friends and family in the past I know Martin needs help and want to help him in this regard.
    It's a terrible situation all round and I'm gutted this happened. Our sport did not need this after Fionnualas great performances lately and I feel terrible that Ava hutchinson did not get the headlines she deserves yesterday. Congratulations to her and Gladys on their runs and I cant wait to see ava and linda race in London.
    I hope that this cleared up a few things.
  • Waiiitt
    9 years ago 01/17/2012 8:09am CST
    Forum Index
    Nappy Roots wrote:

    I'm not going to rant about my racial/socio-political beliefs of why Fagan is being defended as Abdi is attacked undeservedly. After years of visiting LRC, I already know how that will end. I will, however, admit that I am in no way surprised at how Fagan is being overwhelmingly supported. This is no surprise in any sketch of the imagination: LRC would rather see a self-admitted drug cheat excel and vindicated than see a clean African American represent this country at the biggest sporting event in the world. It's sad, shameful, but true.

    I don't think it has anything to do with race. Fagan did not make the USA's Olympic team, Abdi did. And if Abdi is associated with an EPO user, then people have the right to question his improvements. I don't believe that Meb is clean either. I think they are all in something. The problem is: there is not way to prove.

    It is the sad reality of any sport, not just marathon. I was looking at the pictures of the Footlocker runners this year, and I was shocked by the huge jaws that some of these kids have. Definetly HGH or steroids. It is just gettting worse.
  • quanka
    9 years ago 01/17/2012 8:32am CST
    re: Hudson River
    Forum Index
    Hudson River wrote:

    Wow, there does seem to be a lot of racism on this thread.

    Normally drug cheats are considered as "lying sacks of s$&%" by most posters, but in this case he is the victim, he was depressed, he needed help.....

    To those who have posted their sympathy on this thread, look in the mirror and ask yourself if you would feel the same way if it were Bernard Lagat, Abdi, Meb, etc.

    Ever think about LRC and BL's A sample? Tard.
  • ChiOHare
    9 years ago 01/17/2012 8:55am CST
    Forum Index

    is there a direct relation between taking PEDs and depression? Would there not be a another form of "a cry for help" such as recreational drug use? It just seems quite calculating to turn to a long thought out process instead of a quick fix scenario.
  • Azaleas
    9 years ago 01/17/2012 9:07am CST
    re: quanka
    Forum Index

    Lagat's samples were mishandled in a way that has been shown to lead to cause false positives. If you're going to act all high and mighty, you might want to actually learn something about his situation.
  • Was Fagan on SSRI in Arizona?
    9 years ago 01/17/2012 9:16am CST
    Forum Index
    BLACK 47 wrote:

    Excellent point, and the best reasons that people should stay AWAY from drugs, far away from them. They are dangerous and destructive.

    J.R.-Where did you get your medical degree from and what makes you think that you should spout unsolicited medical advice on a running message board? Some people with mental illness go on to live healthy/productive lives due to Anti-Depressants. Don't group these in as "drugs" due to your ignorance of the situation.
    Sometimes ones mental health (i.e.-staying alive) trumps running performance.

    And to "Was Fagan on SSRI in Arizona"-have you ever heard of H.I.I.P.A. laws? You have a better chance of seeing GOD then getting a list of Fagan's medical records.[/quote]


    While we don't have access to Martin Fagan's medical records, we're told in an article that he was taking medication for depression. Someone closer to the situation might tell us what medication it was. I myself experienced a brief psychosis approx 4 years ago due to rapid withdrawal from high dosage of Zoloft, so I know first hand how dangerous drugs used to treat depression can be, especially serotonin uptake inhibitors (SSRI).

    Just 6 months ago, we saw one of our sub4 in high school guys (I forget his name) murder his wife and attempt suicide and was arrested. There was a whole letsrun thread on it. The guy reportedly was coming off an anti depressant as well. So as you can see, these drugs can do weird things to people.

    Someone closer to Ray Tracey and Providence College and the Fagan situation may know more about which med(s) he was on. Also was there a psychiatrist in Flagstaff overseeing his care or did he stop seeing one when he came to Flagstaff to train? Was he on these medication while at Providence or was it something that he started more recently? Or did he start on these medications back in Ireland? I don't really know. But it's difficult to be taking medications for depression if you're not regularly seeing a psychiatrist to properly maintain the dosage and/or taper you off the meds gradually. Are there even good psychiatrists in Flagstaff?
  • worried
    9 years ago 01/17/2012 9:58am CST
    re: Was Fagan on SSRI in Arizona?
    Forum Index

    i dont believe he really came clean, he had no choice. Hadnt the money to fight his case maybe and knew london was over. I think it was a pr stunt of a story, took 1 month to formulate and doesnt give us all the details we want. How was he poor. Like what did he go through. He had a car, head to toe in tatoos and was signed up for bupa run series.
    I dont beleive he was caught the day after injecting. And am pissed off with everyone supporting him. He is another reason why our sport is dying and depression is no excuse. Yes he needs help and yes i fell sorry for him. BUT I dont want him ever near a track again and i want him to tell the truth about it. I want him to give up all his medals.
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