Patent lawyer worth it? Or stick to engineering

4runner wrote:

1) There is still very good demand for competent patent attorneys. It is not crazy like it was 7-8 years ago, but it is still very, very good.

I've got an attorney/friend that does patent work for me. Costs alot (but worth it) so I can certainly agree with point #1.

Sp!kes wrote:

Idiot response. Those are outliers. Patent lawyers are rich. I guess unless you start an engineering company or invent something engineers do not get rich.

Patent lawyers are not rich unless they start their own firms. Engineers can make very good money, though, and without taking out 150 grand in loans + 3 more years of school. That's not a decision I would take lightly.

"rich" is relative. On average Patent lawyers make waaaaaay more than engineers. Its a fact. End of that stupid point.

Op, if you're in it for the cash, become a patent lawyer. If you want an average house and an average car and average wife stick with engineering.

Welcome to the year ca 2000 where every fresh phd and engineer thought they could make big bucks in patent law based on no relevant job experience.

Just my HO wrote:

Sp!kes wrote:

Idiot response. Those are outliers. Patent lawyers are rich. I guess unless you start an engineering company or invent something engineers do not get rich.

Patent lawyers are not rich unless they start their own firms. Engineers can make very good money, though, and without taking out 150 grand in loans + 3 more years of school. That's not a decision I would take lightly.

Thanks for all the responses. I do realize that this is a major decision that could easily end up messing up my life. To a poster on the first page, I found an unpaid position with the local family court office, which I will be starting next week. Hopefully that will give me better insight.

Greg Raymer was a patent attorney and got rich. He won the 2004 World Series of Poker.

If you like to write and don't want to be an engineer, patent law can be a very good choice. However, with law school, you don't have to pick a major so you can practice any kind of law when you finish.

I was an engineer and did law school at night. My company sponsored me so I came out with money in the bank, no debt and many opportunities. My perceived worth was greater than many of my fellow grads b/c of my engineering experience.

My advice is almost always to work a bit and get some real life experience starting grad school. In your mid 20s is a great time to make someoney, train, and enjoy life.

Nothing wrong with the realization that engineering is not for you. That said, not all engineering is created equal. Some engineering jobs are great while others are not.

The great thing about your position is that you have a marketable degree with a great GPA. Whether you choose to work as an engineer, an attorney, or something else, you have plenty of doors that you can open.

Word of caution: Don't convince yourself that law is better than engineering too fast. Here's why: you know first-hand about the negative aspects of engineering, which steer you away from the field, but not the negative aspects of law. By default, your opinion will be tilted towards law, not because law is better, but because you haven't seen firsthand the negative side of law.

I agree with the posters advising you to work as an engineer first. They mentioned the ability to save money as one reason. An even better reason is that patent law firms strongly prefer candidates with real-world engineering experience. Think of that engineering job as preparation for a future patent law position.

After a couple of years as an engineer, you'll become more attractive to law firms looking for patent agents. They will want to see more than just engineering experience - excellent writing skills and a long-term interest in law are essential - but that experience will be key. You can then try your hand at the patent law field, and see if it is for you. If not, no harm done, and you can backtrack into engineering or into a different field without burying yourself in a lifetime worth of debt.

Many patent law firms offer tuition reimbursement for part-time law school. In fact, many such firms require that you enroll in such a program as a condition of employment. The great thing here is that you'll get your law degree to practice patent law, while leveraging your strengths in engineering.

In recent years, the patent law field has been pretty saturated. But that is true of many other fields. The engineering job market has been saturated. The pharmacy field has been saturated. This saturation seems to be a general symptom of a weak economy more than a specific problem with the law field. You're screwed no matter what you study, so study what you want :D

I have noticed that job listings for patent agents have increased substantially. In 2010, there were only a couple of listings. Today, there are pages upon pages of such listings. I think this is because:

1. The economy has recovered and continues to improve as we speak. With a healthier economy comes a greater demand for patent attorneys and other professionals.

2. More importantly, Obama's changes to patent requirements have placed tremendous pressure on tech organizations to file for a patent ASAP. That is because now the first person to file for a patent is the person who gets that patent - while in the past the person who first created the invention was the person who received that patent. To protect their intellectual property, tech organizations are taking patent filing a lot more seriously than in the past - creating a demand for patent attorneys and agents.

The key is to be patient. The job market is competitive. Jobs aren't perfect, and it takes time to arrive at a career that satisfies you. Think about what you want in the long run, realize you will have to sacrifice and wait until you get there, and chart a path that will take you there. It's a slow process, but it's better than waking up 10 years later and still be stuck in something you don't like.

Good luck!!! Do it!

Just don't make the mistake of obsessing about salary, prestige, and the like. These things can be rewarding, but they cannot make you happy. That is not a cliche, it is reality.

So pursue what you want with an eye toward the future, but make it a point not to obsess about it. Take your mind off of it every once in a while. Be sure to do things you enjoy and have a good time, while working hard toward your dream career.

Balance is key in everything, and it is key here.

Trusts and estates lawyer wrote:

I think there is actually a high demand right now for a technical specialty like patent law.

True, but the OP is a MechE. I think there is a lot more demand for IP lawyers with Pharma (biochem) or EE background. MechE no offense (I have a MechE ME) is kind of knuckle dragger general engineering and may not be all that attractive.

Also, a friend with a pHD in BioChem, got a an IP law farm to pay his way to Fordham Law School, while he worked for them part time. This was a sweet deal and now he makes pretty big bank I think.

This is an old thread. What did the OP do?

Personally, he should consider a 180 change at that age if he's not happy with Engineering.

Medicine and dentistry are the top jobs. Engineering is an ok career, but with outsourcing etc..., it is not what it used to be. I know many in the medical industry working at HMOs for very good salaries (that most Engineers wouldn't dream of making) for 4 days a week (8 hour days too). An established dentist can also make their own hours and many choose 4 days a week.

Even with the changes in the medical industry, doctors will still be tops. Even Canada has surgeons, eye doctors, anathesiologists and dematologists making serious coin plus benefits. Many have private clinics too. Don't believe the doomsday predictions about healthcare. The medical industry is the one to be in and always will be.

Unless you went to a ARWU Top 100 engineering school, what you learned is high school stuff. Engineering has been watered down so much it's easy now. Alls you do is download the answerbook PDFs for Stewart Calculus and Sears and Zemansky Physics and memorize the answers.

It's it amazing that 9 out of 10 posters on letsrun.com is an engineer, with the U.S. Army's Combat Infantry Badge, a Ted Cruz supporter and Tea Party member, volunteer fire fighter, and prances around each year bouncing junk at their nearest Gay Pride Parade ;-)

I can confirm this.

It's not that the engineering field has gone 'bust' compared to some other fields it's just that salaries are not what they used to be in relation to standard of living. While this is true for most fields, engineering has been impacted more. There is an extreme flood of competent engineers from Asia who are taking all the good jobs because they are willing to take less money (imagine the white collar version of Mexican workers). This mass immigration of educated engineers from Asia is the major problem.

This post is pure nonsense.

Grade inflation is a problem, yes, but it's another problem.

The flood is not due to more engineers but rather to fewer jobs. Every time you hear that companies are sitting on a pile of cash, that means they are not spending the cash to hire engineers. Its not like they can stop doing accounting or marketing or pay the CEO less.

Elec. Eng. here. I have been considering the same route as you, and have been working for just over 4 years at this point. However, I am in Canada, so our job market is different here. I hope I can provide some more insight.

The Engineering accreditation societies hire a handful of lawyers who also have an engineering background. They take individuals or companies to court based on infringement against the acts. It seems like a good job. Very stable.

Speaking firsthand, a lot of lawyers in engineering consulting firms are experts in contract law. All consulting firms do is establish a contract and work. Having an engineering background for a position like this is a huge benefit.

Don't get involved in the patent system unless you really have your heart set on it. Some manufacturers over-patent as a strategy to discourage competition from even attempting to mimic their designs, and also sue like mad just to scare the other companies. It's a broken system in my opinion, and I'm not sure it's fun to get caught up in.

You should examine why you hated engineering (and yet went all the way through the program?). What kind of job do you want? What aspects of engineering did you like? What aspects of law would you like, and would the aspects of engineering you didn't like be present in law anyways?

I have a friend who graduated as an engineer then went to law school and now works for GE as a patent lawyer. Seems like that background would suit you well for it. It would be a good mix of using your engineering background and law.

Well..In my point of view law is a better option as you may find more competition in the field of engineering. Secondly , both of them are very technical degrees but in case of law you would not only require exceptional logical and reasoning power but also memory power. So if you want to quinch your thirst you could opt for engineering else I would say take LAW.

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