Philly RnR Half Short?

Freelove wrote:

Is there a reason to wear a Garmin in a race other than to whine about it being the wrong distance? I'm actually curious about why so many people race in them.

it's the only running watch i have

too many races with screwed up splits and sometimes final times - easy insurance

The map is up now.

Looking at a few routes uploaded to connect.garmin.com, they look consistent with the certification map. The only real possibility for error is the positioning of the start or finish or the measurement itself. The start/finish looking correct on the tracks (and yes a Garmin is fine for this purpose) and I doubt the measurement is wrong. Also, the vast majority of the garmin tracks I looked at were a little long, which is what I'd expect. It all looks consistent with an accurate course.

don't worry the Competitor Group could care less if the course is accurate or not. They made themselves a great deal of money and they will use it to help themselves ruin another great race.

I find that hard to believe they don't care about the accuracy of the course. Every year the race brings in a dozen or so USATF officials to officiate the Start/Finish and each 5K split in case of World or National records.

Not sure they would bother if they didn't care about accuracy.

I run the Schulkyll River loop fairly regularly in Philadelphia. There are many points where I have lost the signal of my Garmin. One of which is on the Falls Bridge, as already mentioned. Additionally, if the course was short everyone should be off by the same amount. Everyone with a GPS watch should observe same difference, but they're all over the place. There are lots of long curves, two traffic circles, and 90 degree turns on the course. Garmin's draw strait lines front point. There aren't too many stretches of the course that are truly straight lines.

I have run the race 3 times, the old course and new course twice. I ran last year and this year. I highly doubt that it is short. My splits were consistent both years.

Also, the curves on Kelly/West River Dr. are so long and winding and 4 traffic lanes wide, that running the tangents just as they are measured is damn near impossible. It'd be easy to cut distance as much as it is to add.

My anecdotal observation for last year, 2010, when the high temp was 82 and mid-70's during the race, most people were 1-2min. slower than their goals for the race. Everyone I talked to, said the same thing, they came up short of what they were shooting for. With the weather perfect this year, there a lot of PR's among everyone I talked to. Though no one ran anything unusual. No one ran some absurd time that was beyond their perceived fitness.

I would ask the people are shocked by their 1-2min. PR's is where and when did they last run their PR. The difficultly of courses and conditions vary greater than they probably realize.

Full disclosure, I did not run a PR.

I ran this weekend and none of my mile splits were very far off each other at all. It's not like I had one mile that was 20-30 seconds faster than any other one. Course was legit, just a perfect day for running. Quit the hating and enjoy what you guys just accomplished.

Not only was it a perfect day to race (which is often highly underestimated and/or overlooked, think Boston earlier this year), there were also 4 less turns than in years past. Four turns is significant on an already quick course.

13.4 on mine. I live here and did well on tangents since I knew what was coming.

I had an interesting conversation with an old race official last night who was now a volunteered this year and he advised me that there was something suspect with the course in two specific places. The first place was between miles 1 & 2 and the second was near mile 8. He then followed it up with the quote of "I really wouldn't be surprised if we found out in a week or two that it's 2 or 3 tenths short".

I'm looking forward to seeing what exactly comes out...

I live in philly and own a wheel and decided that I would go measure it last night to put all my doubts about the courts accuracy to rest. I was very surprised to come up with 12.8. I don't know any of the exact mile lengths because I couldn't remember where each marker was, but im sure on on the start and the finish lines so I'm now convinced the course actually is short.

How did you manage it without being hit by a car?

I did it at night and kept to one side of the road except when i had to take a tangent on a turn, in which case I did so very carefully. It took quite some time, but I got it.

Sure ya did.

I mapped it out on mapmyrun and came out with 12.86. Also, ran a 4 minute pr on race day off of pretty shitty training. Normally, I wouldn't think anything of it, but with so many other people coming up wiht discrepancies as well, I can't help but think where there's smoke, there's fire.

Rip Riley wrote:

I live in philly and own a wheel and decided that I would go measure it last night to put all my doubts about the courts accuracy to rest. I was very surprised to come up with 12.8. I don't know any of the exact mile lengths because I couldn't remember where each marker was, but im sure on on the start and the finish lines so I'm now convinced the course actually is short.

If ANYONE believes this person please let me know. I have a great plot of land to sell you.

that's funny wrote:

Rip Riley wrote:

I live in philly and own a wheel and decided that I would go measure it last night to put all my doubts about the courts accuracy to rest. I was very surprised to come up with 12.8. I don't know any of the exact mile lengths because I couldn't remember where each marker was, but im sure on on the start and the finish lines so I'm now convinced the course actually is short.

If ANYONE believes this person please let me know. I have a great plot of land to sell you.

I'm the OP and I don't even believe that. That's an obvious troll attempt. I am however, still convinced that it is a couple minutes short. Not a hater, just being honest. Congrats to everyone on their "pr's"

No worries, he'd have been smashed flat and then run over numerous times trying to walk on those streets, much less measure anything.

Still, I don't know anyone whose Garmin measured under 13, 13.3x to 13.4x was the common mileage for the local runners I know.

the only part I don't understand is how was there 4 less turns (11th-Race-12th-Arch), but all the mile markers were in the same place as they were a year ago?

Non-idiot runner wrote:

Not only was it a perfect day to race (which is often highly underestimated and/or overlooked, think Boston earlier this year), there were also 4 less turns than in years past. Four turns is significant on an already quick course.