Philly RnR Half Short?

Good marketing, not the best organizational staff

http://www.runcolo.com/content/rock-n-denver-marathon-course-long-507/

All this is fluff.

Garmin yada yada yada

USATF certified yada yada yada

PR's yada yada yada.

Goucher set an OT qualifying time.

Course was short. Case closed.

USATF Certified should have ended this thread. Anyone making comments ever perform the function of USATF Road Race Measurer/Certifier? This course was just certified on 7 Sep 11, course cert # PA11023WB. Maybe everyone just ran faster today.

Unfortunately the certification map for this year's course isn't up yet.

Garmin should measure long at pretty much every race. Yes I always race with it, yes I'm slower than you.

Never...and yes I know that Lakeshore isn't a major.http://buffalorunners.com/news/0506lakeshore05.htm

big pr guy wrote:

Because 'major races' never make mistakes? I've got a bridge to sell you...

USATF Certified doesn't mean anything. See the following thread from a Portland (Ore.) based running club on the Flat Half-Marathon this past July. It too was USATF-certified and what do you know, it was short and upon further investigation all those Garmins were right.

http://www.redlizardrunning.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15717

Full disclosure - I do not own a Garmin and I never have.

Don't go by Garmin those devices are all over the place. 10 people wearing the same device will get different measurements--go figure? Take a calibrated wheel out there and measure the course if you are overly concerned. The course is one of the FASTEST in the world and you got perfect weather--nothing short there....

I can't say if they did this or not since I wasn't there, but comparing the 2010 and 2011 courses, I did see 1 pretty material difference between the 2010 and 2011 courses. In 2010, right after the 5K, they did the quick turn on 11th up to Race, then turn on 12th and back to Arch. It looks like that was skipped this year.

I put the weather in Philly yesterday (for sept) on par with what they had in Boston in April. Perfect weather equals FAST times.

stang68cs wrote:

USATF Certified should have ended this thread. Anyone making comments ever perform the function of USATF Road Race Measurer/Certifier? This course was just certified on 7 Sep 11, course cert # PA11023WB. Maybe everyone just ran faster today.

Wrong!

It has been said in this thread already, but just because a course is certified doesn't mean that the course that was run was the same one that was certified.

I ran a race once with a turnaround. It was certified. But, whoever was responsible for placing the turnaround cone placed it in the wrong spot.

I have no clue if this particular race was accurate, but the fact that it is certified doesn't mean it has to be accurate.

Why is this so hard to understand? Yes, the course is certified with a Jones Counter on a bicycle. This says nothing about the course setup though. All it takes is one volunteer to put one cone in the wrong place and the course is screwed.Here's everything you never wanted to know about the process:http://www.usatf.org/about/committees/LongDistanceRunning/RoadRunningTechnicalCouncil/history/jones-history.aspI have no idea whether the course was short, but accurate certification =/= accurate setup.

The Stache wrote:

Freelove wrote:

It's a certified course, isn't it? That means someone already measured it. You people with your Garmins whining after every race are really annoying.

QFE.

It is a USATF certified course. It is measured with a calibrated wheel for the entire distance. A WHEEL, you know those things that have to roll over the entire distance of the course, the same course your feet will carry you over.

It wasn't short. Throw your garmins away. It is a super fast course and was run in ideal weather. Quit your whining little bitches. Anything to sound important.

I didn't run yesterday, so I can't say with certainty either way, but I will say that the above is correct. To people who are saying it's been run for years, that's not quite right. Obviously major locations (parkway and the river loop, for example) are the same, but the course and directions are not the same as even two years ago.

I looked at my Garmin track from 2010 and 2011. BTW my Garmin read long for both races (13.3 in 2010 and 13.4 in 2011). The track through the city are obviously messed up due to the buildings.

True, in 2011 we didn't do the turn on 11th over to Race street, then back to Arch like 2010. Though, in 2011 we went all the way to 4th street, when in 2010 we only went to 5th street.

certifier of things wrote:

Why is this so hard to understand? Yes, the course is certified with a Jones Counter on a bicycle. This says nothing about the course setup though. All it takes is one volunteer to put one cone in the wrong place and the course is screwed.

Here's everything you never wanted to know about the process:

http://www.usatf.org/about/committees/LongDistanceRunning/RoadRunningTechnicalCouncil/history/jones-history.asp

I have no idea whether the course was short, but accurate certification =/= accurate setup.

This is all true, but as many on this thread have noted, if this was the case then there should be a mile where everyone ran about a minute faster than they expected. No one has been able to point to one yet. So unless, the argument is that there were multiple errors in the setup of the course which left each mile equally short (highly unlikely) there is no evidence backing up the improper setup hypothesis behind the fast times. I seriously doubt the course was not set up as certified.

It is one thing to certify a course, it is quite another to certify one well, especially in a city. Was the person operating the wheel daredevil enough to take every tangent and cut every corner that the runners could take on the closed race day streets? Or were they playing it safe and certifying a longer line than it should have been? People I know that are good at certifying courses do it in the middle of the night with a truck with flashing lights blocking for them.

10/10

9/10 Excellent timing and excecution. Good use of data to follow up suspicions.