The Frank Shorter Story

This post is incredibly stupid on so many levels.

What it basically boils down to is the traditional, things (kids) were so much better back in the good old days. Every group of old people since the beginning of time has done this, and the sky has not fallen yet.

This post takes it a whole step further and uses this out dated world view to justify physical abuse.

Second, you say you are "not doubting Frank," but do exactly that in saying "if accurate..." You are the reason that adults like Frank second guess themselves before telling their stories. With attitudes like this, it is no wonder that children are too afraid to escape the violence.

Maybe next time you mess up at work, someone can just kick you a few times instead of explaining what you did wrong. Obviously the idea of that is ridiculous. Imagine how much more ridiculous you sound when you suggest that while not okay to do with adults, it is okay to to do a child. I question the basic intellect of anyone who cannot think of a better way to discipline a child than physically striking them.

Are you kidding? I hope so.

I'm sorry, but your statement about the ball is ludicrous.

Psychological trauma =not getting adequate playing time with ball

Acceptable corporal punishment = spanking your child either with hand or belt

I really have been trying to see where you're coming from with your posts, but you totally lost me when suggesting that taking away a ball is somehow going to lead to more psychological trauma than getting hit by your parent. Like it or not, the latter leaves a lasting psychological response. You must be completely in denial to suggest otherwise.

I was spanked as a child on a few occasions. Didn't deter my misbehavior much. I was innately curious/rebellious. I had my t.v. taken away, my car, and several other "luxuries". I can tell you this: I cannot remember being resentful for those things being taken away. They don't eat away at my psyche; honestly I can barely remember. What I DO vividly remember is my dad bending me over his lap and spanking me several times. He wasn't mean about it. In fact, he's a great man. I remember though. Those are some of the childhood memories that stick out in my mind with the most sensory detail. The touch, the feeling of pain, the disappointment, the tears, the sound of the spanking. Those are things you cannot take away.

I just... wrote:

Maybe next time you mess up at work, someone can just kick you a few times instead of explaining what you did wrong. Obviously the idea of that is ridiculous. Imagine how much more ridiculous you sound when you suggest that while not okay to do with adults, it is okay to to do a child. I question the basic intellect of anyone who cannot think of a better way to discipline a child than physically striking them.

That is an awesome illustration, and right on the mark.

Some people don't seem to realize, that whapping a small child on the butt, shaking them, slapping them in the face, and especially hitting them in the head with a fist, can cause extreme tissue damage, even brain damage to the child.

And it conveys nothing positive.

Here's an observation for you.

I live in the heart of Silicon Valley. The kids here are of all races and backgrounds. One thing that they do have in common is that they are raised in well educated families who value education, discipline and achievement. I think that any outside observer would note that these kids overall are remarkably well adjusted, disciplined, smart, compassionate over-achievers.

Oh, and corporal punishment is essentially unthinkable here.

Go figure.

SomeCoach wrote:

Some of you are struggling with my term "Appropriate Corporal Punishment." To whack a kid on his backside at the age of five so that he doesn't chase a ball into a busy road the second time is an effective memory stimulus for that age group, I struggle to term that abusive. In fact, not finding an appropriate method to keep the child from running into the busy road would be neglect.

Off the Grid wrote:

Or you could take away the ball....

SomeCoach wrote:

And then what? Be accused of causing psychological trauma due to lack of ball playing time as a youngster?

If a parent were to somehow dodge every possible physical and psychological mine field they will surely produce the finest spoiled brat of the century .....

And then you teach him/her that if they are not playing safe, they cannot play. After an appropriate amount of time, they get the ball back.

Violence is not a substitute for putting in the time w/ your child. It takes time and patience. If you threaten then and provoke fear, they will still run into the street, except when you are there.

Data Point wrote:

Here's an observation for you.

I live in the heart of Silicon Valley. The kids here are of all races and backgrounds. One thing that they do have in common is that they are raised in well educated families who value education, discipline and achievement. I think that any outside observer would note that these kids overall are remarkably well adjusted, disciplined, smart, compassionate over-achievers.

Oh, and corporal punishment is essentially unthinkable here.

Go figure.

This sounds a bit like Shorter's community. The most harrowing aspect of the article is the tremendous disjunction between the public appearance and the private reality of the Shorter household.

deleuze wrote:

Data Point wrote:

Here's an observation for you.

Oh, and corporal punishment is essentially unthinkable here.

This sounds a bit like Shorter's community. The most harrowing aspect of the article is the tremendous disjunction between the public appearance and the private reality of the Shorter household.

my thoughts exactly. it's that same arrogance i referenced before. reminds me of a song by Rehab:

When I was twelve, while checking the mail

I was admiring the car of the man next door

And thinking to myself, man, one of these days

I'm gonna have me a house like that with a big, red door

And his yard was mowed, and his grass was green

And the driveway was edged and all the shrubs were trimmed so perfectly

I had a crush on his wife and I played ball with his son

I pondered how much money he made, went inside and turned the TV on

[Hook:]

And he was laying in an overflowing bathtub of red water

The first and the last time he ever relaxed

And they said, he had a smile on his face

His final offer, the steam on the mirror said

One more thing to say

Data Point wrote:

Here's an observation for you.

I live in the heart of Silicon Valley. The kids here are of all races and backgrounds. One thing that they do have in common is that they are raised in well educated families who value education, discipline and achievement. I think that any outside observer would note that these kids overall are remarkably well adjusted, disciplined, smart, compassionate over-achievers.

Oh, and corporal punishment is essentially unthinkable here.

Go figure.

I live in Silicon Valley too. If you think that corporal punishment is "unthinkable" among the Indian/East Asian families here then you are not paying attention.

If you think that the average grade-grubbing, violin-playing, Ivy League striving, Indian/East Asian kid is well-adjusted (!!!), or getting a good moral and emotional foundation for life, you really are not paying attention.

Source: I was one of the kids described above.

Is it true that the Indian/East Asian kids cheat their asses off to get good grades?

I have to wonder...will this explain why he is considered to be such an ahole by so many?