Sorry for the bold...
Sorry for the bold...
durrrbuddy wrote:
I also suffered childhood abuse, but there's an old adage that says you don't speak ill of the dead.
The time for Shorter to speak out about his abusive father was while his abusive father was alive and able to answer for what he did. Shorter was wrong to let his father live out his days under false pretense, and what he is doing no is nothing short of cowardly.
As cowardly as anonymously attacking Shorter via the internet Mr. durrrbuddy?
And yet another anonymous poster complaining about anonymous posters.....
There is no excuse for the sexual abuse suffered by members of the Shorter family. I try to rationalize the physical abuse because I need to. I didn't turn to running to get away from my father, but rather, to try to please him. A very good point that someone made was the physical beatings made it impossible for me to ever have the relationship with my dad that I wanted so desperately. How can you possibly go to a man with a problem when he routinely called you stupid and beat you for getting your pants dirty.
This thread was actually a good one for about the first 40 posts
I was thinking the same. The best of letsrun in the first 40 posts or so.
Nappy Roots wrote:
I think many distance runners share similar stories of survival and resiliency. The same experiences that evokes feelings of pain and emotional trauma are the ones that fuels our drive to overcompensate, cope, and heal from those traumas. I know that personally and felt absolutely empowered by Frank sharing his story. Distance running for so many has become antidepressants, anti-anxiety, and mood stabilizing. Running is mindfulness in action for me and something I encourage all who suffer emotionally to engage in.
This.
I read Frank's article in RW last week and have been thinking about it nonstop since then. Reading Frank's account and this thread has been very restorative. My little brother and I chose to run while my older siblings chose to tune out with drugs and other self destructive behaviors that took a while to recover from.
My mother suffered abuse from her parents who suffered even greater abuse from the Indian boarding schools back in the day. Thank goodness my wife was able to save me from unconsciously inflicting abuse on to our children.
I struggled with violence for most of my life, either inflicted on me or me inflicting it onto others; bar fights, road rage, emotional abuse on those who tried to love me, etc.
It takes generations to undo the cycle of violence but it is the most important steps we can take as parents. There is a way to instill desire without physical or emotional abuse. I don’t blame my parents for the abuse we lived through whom, like dissenter, they know of no other way to live their lives. I live and love today not because I'm a person of great moral character but rather because I was/am a runner.
Thank you Frank for taking such a public stand; your brave actions will no doubt help others to persevere.
One could make an argument that if the revelations in this article are true that Frank Shorter owes his father tremendous gratitude for being a huge catalyst in relation to his stupendous achievements. This is not to condone in any way any abuse that may have taken place, but to point out that there can be silver linings in the most horrific circumstances. Frank's father apparently did a tremendous amount of good in this world and if he had a dark side, this only makes him human, and for all the intellectual midgets who are about to imply that I am defending him, I would only suggest that you refrain from character assassination as it certainly is possible that Dr. Shorter's upbringing played a huge role in the way he interacted with his family, for better or worse. This story, if true, is sad, but it is the human drama being played out in a manner which is not necessarily that unusual, but so often what goes on behind closed doors is not what is being displayed on the other side.
I understand your sentiment, but it should be ripped to shreds because it's not well worded. Yes, it's true that life is what we make of it, whether bad or good circumstances beyond our control. And often those that are reared in bad circumstances end up as high achievers because they learned to overcome adversity. But Frank Shorter does NOT owe his father "tremendous gratitude" for abusing him.
I am utterly appalled at your deficit in cognition. I did not say Frank Shorter owed his father tremendous gratitude for "abusing him." You are not very bright. I wrote that one COULD make an argument that Frank owes his father tremendous gratitude for being a huge catalyst in relation to his stupendous achievements. You have distorted my words. You don't know what Dr. Shorter did for Frank and neither do I. Most people are not all good or all bad, just as, despite appearances, you likely are not always a complete moron, but might for instance, despite your low IQ, be capable of changing a tire, for instance.
70sguy wrote:
I competed against Frank during the 70's. He was always measured and quiet and not that easy to get to know. He was/is my idol still today. As I read the article I found myself weeping, but also realizing why he was distant in those days.
_______________________
Hugs
Are you related to Fita Lovin?
Interesting thought, although a tough one to defend, because the credit really belongs to Frank and what he overcame at home. Although running likely gave Frank solace and a chance for him to define himself on his own terms, Frank made a conscious decision to channel his experiences into accomplishment. Most children of abuse wind up becoming abusers and otherwise being destructive people. Look no further than some of his other siblings. Frank should thank no one but himself for being deliberate about his life choices.
I knew by the time I was 12 that I had all the tools to become a real jerk in life; a terrible male role model, constant feelings of rage and depression, a family history of addiction, and little personal integrity. I literally decided that I wanted to be decent man, a decent father and had to be deliberate about every decision of any importance throughout my life. It's like they say that once an alcoholic, always an an alcoholic. I knew I was born to be an alcoholic before I ever had a drink. I could just see my self-destructive tendencies before I really started wrecking my life (and I was on my way even at that age).
Running became the structure against the chaos of my family life. I could control it and no one could take it away from me. It was socially acceptable way to express my frustration/anger and it treated my depression.
I do wonder if I would have ever accomplished as much as I have (NCAAs, physician, PhD, leader in multiple arenas etc..) if I had a different father. However, my accomplishments only bring temporary joy, before I HAVE to achieve something else. Most people think I downplay my accomplishments. But I am like a shark that must keep swimming or I'll die. I have come to accept that I will always live with a visceral fear of becoming homeless and alone. The only time I feel at peace with myself and truly happy is when I spend time with my kids.
I've come to know my dad as an adult and as his friend (as much as he is able to maintain a friendship). No one else in my extended family will speak to him. Most of all, I pity him. He is older now and his lies are sloppier, more transparent than when he was younger. I hurt his feelings every time I call him on the more ridiculous/impossible lies and I do this as sparingly as I can. He is a sad man that will die alone and I am not exaggerating when I say that I am likely the only person on the planet that would be willing or able to eulogize him.
Would I thank him for making me who I am? Well, who am I? I am who I am by design. My design. If it weren't for him, perhaps I would not be as devoted a father as I am. Nor would I have this gnawing need to win, to be better than I am today. My dad has served as the model of who I was destined but refused to become. But he deserves no credit for what I have done to resist that pull.
First ... to Common Story ... excellent post.
My grandfather said to me as a young child that a little bit of anything is healthy ... to much or none is probably bad.
If accurate (not doubting Frank, but nonetheless memories can warp over time, and there is no video tape ;) ) the corporal punishment administered was excessive, even criminal. Too much ...
Corporal punishment may be at an all time historical low in the US at this point in time. Kids are about as disrespectful as I've ever observed. Too little .....
I received corporal punishment in appropriate dosages from about the age of 3 until about the age of 8. Before four and the child has no memory of the punishment, and it's therefore ineffective. After eight and you're not reasoning with the child. A little bit of anything is healthy.
It would be curious to find out how many successful adults have had to fight against childhood abuses. If it turns out to be a stimulus to success, that's a hell of thing .....
[quote]SomeCoach wrote:
It would be curious to find out how many successful adults have had to fight against childhood abuses. If it turns out to be a stimulus to success, that's a hell of thing .....[/quote)
You write that you knew you were born to be an alcoholic before you ever had a drink. Does this mean you are in some way upset that your parents procreated? Or at any rate it is difficult to know how this connects to your father's failings, unless genetically.
You write that "I am who I am by design. My design." Really? That is a belief you have. It would be impossible for you to prove this, and whether you are cognizant of it or not, the majority of the evidence opposes the veracity of this assertion, and I am certainly not speaking of the supernatural here.
jesse was a friend wrote:
I am utterly appalled at your deficit in cognition. I did not say Frank Shorter owed his father tremendous gratitude for "abusing him." You are not very bright. I wrote that one COULD make an argument that Frank owes his father tremendous gratitude for being a huge catalyst in relation to his stupendous achievements. You have distorted my words. You don't know what Dr. Shorter did for Frank and neither do I. Most people are not all good or all bad, just as, despite appearances, you likely are not always a complete moron, but might for instance, despite your low IQ, be capable of changing a tire, for instance.
There is absolutely no argument to be made that Frank owes his father any gratitude whatsoever. Frank is what he is despite his father not because of his father. You are correct, we do not know what Mr Shorter did for Frank, but Frank does. Since Frank did not THANK his father it is safe to say there is no argument to be made.
I realize you think you are smarter than others but you are not very bright.
You are one of the intellectual midgets I had anticipated in my post. You fail at logic. Frank's ingratitude does not prove anything.
I went through the same shit as a kid and I know others that did too....I use to HATE my Oldman but no longer do.... I simply got educated and started to understand why he was the way he was... I simply let it all go... Sure I still carry the battle wounds of my childhood but I don't dwell on them or use them as an excuse...I don't the victim any longer...
I know I didn't create situation nor could I control it!
I promised myself that when I grew up I would be nothing like my dad, yet there are things about me that remind me of my dad.
I now have a child and I swore I would never hit my child--well one day I did and it TORE me up with guilt! I knew where that strike of the open hand came from and I never touched my child ever again....the guilt was just so unbearable....and my son just to precious and not deserving of that type of bullshit!
Wish things had been different for me but at least they are different for my boy...
SomeCoach wrote:
Corporal punishment may be at an all time historical low in the US at this point in time. Kids are about as disrespectful as I've ever observed. Too little .....
I received corporal punishment in appropriate dosages from about the age of 3 until about the age of 8. Before four and the child has no memory of the punishment, and it's therefore ineffective. After eight and you're not reasoning with the child. A little bit of anything is healthy.
It would be curious to find out how many successful adults have had to fight against childhood abuses. If it turns out to be a stimulus to success, that's a hell of thing .....
You are one of several people on this thread concluding that there is a direct correlation with getting your ass kicked at home and good behavior or even success. I suppose you can challenge Frank's account of things, but how do people suggest that a bunch of random beatings to a house full of kids, especially when administered by an MD, is anywhere close to appropriate in the 20th century. As for success stimulus from childhood abuse, I think there was only 1 Olympian in the Shorter household so it doesn't seem like beating and raping your kids is a terrific motivator.
Terrible post. Sorry.
Corporal punishment has no place in a civilized society. Anyone, including parents, who strike or physically dominate anyone else less powerful than themselves are showing themselves to be cowards and bullies, nothing more.
Striking an adult is universally seen as unacceptable except in self defense. Striking a child is far, far worse because of a child's sheer helplessness, physically yes, but especially emotionally.
Please do yourself and everyone else a favor and educate yourself about the history and effects of corporal punishment.
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