Caster Semenya strikes again

What I was trying to explain earlier is that Semenya almost certainly undergoing hormone treatment so that her testosterone levels are at a point which is fair to all of her competitors.

95% of the morons on here have instead decided to ignore this completely and also ignore the fact that she has looked to be completely human this past year, and instead instantly start bitching and complaining when she wins a SEMI FINAL heat at the WC, in a time which 8 other people ran within a second of.

FknMorons wrote:

I didn't hear all of you clueless f*cks complaining about her and calling her a man while she was running 2:06s and losing races this past year.

For many posters, that's the whole point: They wouldn't care about Caster's sexual identity, if she weren't supposedly denying other athletes the chance to win, because of her presumed unfair advantage. If Oscar Pistorius were in contention for gold, comments would probably be a lot less sympathetic to him as well; since he isn't, everyone, including all the athletes I've seen, are happy to let him race.

In Caster's case, it's an IAAF decision that can be argued with, but I think the athlete has to be respected. Every human is born with different physical attributes anyway, and most athletes have a great "unfair" advantage over almost everyone else - and I don't think Caster trains any less than her competitors either.

Querfeldein wrote:

For many posters, that's the whole point: They wouldn't care about Caster's sexual identity, if she weren't supposedly denying other athletes the chance to win, because of her presumed unfair advantage. If Oscar Pistorius were in contention for gold, comments would probably be a lot less sympathetic to him as well; since he isn't, everyone, including all the athletes I've seen, are happy to let him race.

In Caster's case, it's an IAAF decision that can be argued with, but I think the athlete has to be respected. Every human is born with different physical attributes anyway, and most athletes have a great "unfair" advantage over almost everyone else - and I don't think Caster trains any less than her competitors either.

Regarding Pistorius, I think I was completely outraged about his being allowed to compete, regardless of where he finished. The IAAF has really made a huge mistake allowing him to compete, and that it was people should be complaining about.

It seems to be pretty confirmed that Semenya has undergone hormone treatment to neutralize her testosterone levels. Now that this has been done, there should be no more dispute regarding her eligibility to compete against women. In women's track and field, especially shorter distance races like the 800, testosterone levels will always affect performance to a certain degree, and I agree with you in that this is the same as other differences in physical attributes, all of which affect performance. The harsh reality is that these physical and physiological attributes always play a huge part in determining who will be truly elite in this sport, and this situation is no different. Just take a look at the world record holder

Your sarcasm aside--discrimination by muscle fiber is already accounted for in the fact that we have different events. Effectively, what we are saying already is "The Olympic 100meter fast-twitch champion"

Sure, respected as much as a 20 year old man than can run 1:55

Having testo producing testicles should be a pretty massive no-no if you want to compete versus women.

runn wrote:

MIMS wrote:

This is some of the stupidest reasoning I have ever seen on this site, and that is saying something.

Thanks- no matter what you may think of her, saying that she's a man because she doesn't celebrate like a "girl" is so freaking stupid.

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Who is mis-managing her? Why when she has been found to have testicles and male hormones, does she show her muscles after races? My god. Don't get on here and say, "She is a female, get over it".

Many on here were criticized after questioning her sexuality after Berlin. They were proven to be right. She was extremely young and unproven in the middle distance running community. no one comes on the scene after running a few high school races and dominates like she did at such a young age.

The reason we have male and female sports is that the hormonal differences don't allow women to be competitive. The great thing about female middle distance running is that we can see the years of dedicated training, and racing with these talented women pay off in great performances. I have nothing against Caster personally, but she could really wreck women's middle distance running. The woman who race against her get very frustrated at this. It is not fair and that becomes not interesting.

FknMorons wrote:

What I was trying to explain earlier is that Semenya almost certainly undergoing hormone treatment so that her testosterone levels are at a point which is fair to all of her competitors.

95% of the morons on here have instead decided to ignore this completely and also ignore the fact that she has looked to be completely human this past year, and instead instantly start bitching and complaining when she wins a SEMI FINAL heat at the WC, in a time which 8 other people ran within a second of.

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You ever watch those movies back in the Ali Baba days?

The guys guarding the harem have had their balls cut off. But they are still strong as shit.

Cutting CS's testicles off is too little too late.

bobonuts wrote:

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You ever watch those movies back in the Ali Baba days?

The guys guarding the harem have had their balls cut off. But they are still strong as shit.

Cutting CS's testicles off is too little too late.

Its actually IAAF policy that if a male athlete decides to get a sex change, they must serve a 2 year ban and undergo hormone therapy, but they can compete as a female also. I.E, Usain Bolt could get a sex change tomorrow, and be cleared by the IAAF to compete as a female in Moscow 2013. The effects of testosterone diminish eventually, and the increased estrogen levels will also help to reverse the effects of high testosterone, and if CS is receiving hormone therapy, there is absolutely ZERO reason that she shouldn't be competing with females.

Agreed... I run sled dogs and after a dog reaches full maturity (at around 18 months) neutering usually has little impact on muscle mass or male behaviors.

Of course, we are not talking about dogs, but the fact remains that testosterone is not the only hormone or physical factor that makes a (human) male perform at a higher athletic level (usually about 15% faster, talent, training, etc. being equal) than a human female.

Women have different bone structure- particularly in the hips (usually giving the more of a knock-kneed appearance of a woman, and the fact that a woman is designed to bear children), a woman's center of gravity is different than a mans, muscle mass is distributed diffrently, and we are subject to hormonal cycles. So, even in the extreme, were Semenya's internal testicles removed, she would still be in essence, a man.

I'm not sure what kind of testing was done. Testosterone level indicates not much. Actual genetic testing- well, there are people with XXY or XXX or X. XX and then those with hormonal issues or androgen insensitivity. A host of relatively rare issues... that make it difficult to pinpoint gender.

From a performance standpoint, however- it is clear that Semeya matured to a man's body and musculature. The angles of her hips, her bulky upper body- all suggest a man's (superior athletic) build- not a woman's.

Semeya should not be racing against women, because she is not one in the ways that matter athletically. I will continue to refer to her as 'she' because that is how she was raised and how she sees herself, and I very much respect that. I also see this as a very difficult and personal situation for her- it must take a lot of guts to get out there and race after being ridiculed as some male-female freak.

Tough call, but it's not fair to the women who have dedicated their lives to training and racing to be beaten by someone with the physical benefits of a man.

I am a woman athlete, and unfortunately, even the most gifted athletic women usually finish about 15% slower than the best men in the same event. Obviously, being a man has it's advantages... which is why we have seperate male and female catagories. So, yeah, Semenya should be DQd.

FknMorons wrote:

bobonuts wrote:

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You ever watch those movies back in the Ali Baba days?

The guys guarding the harem have had their balls cut off. But they are still strong as shit.

Cutting CS's testicles off is too little too late.

Its actually IAAF policy that if a male athlete decides to get a sex change, they must serve a 2 year ban and undergo hormone therapy, but they can compete as a female also. I.E, Usain Bolt could get a sex change tomorrow, and be cleared by the IAAF to compete as a female in Moscow 2013. The effects of testosterone diminish eventually, and the increased estrogen levels will also help to reverse the effects of high testosterone, and if CS is receiving hormone therapy, there is absolutely ZERO reason that she shouldn't be competing with females.

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It may be IAAF policy, but I don't believe it is correct. There is a lot more to the difference (and advantage) of males than simply hormonal levels. The IAAF have mis-managed this issue.

I like to see good performances. I hope she lays the hammer down. It's not like she's smashing the WR or anything, so I think it's probably fair.

OK, for the people arguing in support of Caster, look at her training. She came out of nowhere at 18 and started running 1:55, 1:56 like it was nothing. This is right on par with what a good 18 year old man would be running with some solid training. There is a reason why world class women at 800 and 1500 meters run the equivalent of good HS men's times. So for the argument of testosterone not really doing that much for you or even in receiving hormone treatments since she is a man, this is a HUGE difference in physical ability to talk about between men and women. There are many gifted men even by 16 or 17 who can hit sub 2 800's on minimal training. But this is a big benchmark for world class women to hit to be #1. Caster Semenya has the function of a 20 year old man, there is no way to disbute this. It should have never been up for debate. Being a track & field athlete is a professional JOB. And a pre-req for that job is men compete against men, women compete against women. If a person's body doesnt fit into that realm, too bad. Go do something else. Caster Semenya doesnt get to choose in this situation, she should not be allowed to compete, and I hope every woman in that final boycotts racing against her in protest. If they had done that in 2009, this wouldnt even be an issue.

The IAAF missed the boat on this one, this is a travesty for track & field, and is an insult to competition.

The IAAF didn't release the results publicly. This is all speculation.

The world record for the 800m is 1:53.28, so Caster's times are within the realm of possibility for a woman. The other women need to step up and beat the world record, it has been around for too long.

It was proven after the fact that those women cheated, like Jarmila, and Marita Koch. They were part of a systematic doping regimen going on, and were on male hormones and steroids up the wazoo.

So pulling out the womens 800 WR as a strong point doesnt work. That record should be abolished.

But Caster sure is built just like Jarmila, :)

CSfan wrote:

I like to see good performances. I hope she lays the hammer down. It's not like she's smashing the WR or anything, so I think it's probably fair.

If you like to see men running 1:55, go down and watch your local high school meet.

Lada wrote:

The IAAF didn't release the results publicly. This is all speculation.

This is a good point. They are trying to make this situation go away, but by not being transparent, it is continuing.

Harrier41 wrote:

It was proven after the fact that those women cheated, like Jarmila, and Marita Koch. They were part of a systematic doping regimen going on, and were on male hormones and steroids up the wazoo.

So pulling out the womens 800 WR as a strong point doesnt work. That record should be abolished.

But Caster sure is built just like Jarmila, :)

If this is proven, then why do these records still stand? I guess I'll just leave it up to the IAAF to decide what's fair. I was just speculating based on what past women have been capable of.