Mens 800 Final

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  • amafie
    8 years ago 08/30/2011 12:13pm CDT
    re: asdsa
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    The "clip" around 600m was not that important.

    In the linked youtube race, he is in GREAT position coming into 600m, almost passing Kaki for 3rd. Watch around 1:18 into the video. Then, he starts rigging, and is immediately passed by the first Polak, then clipped, then passed by the second Polak.

    He simply was outran.

    Bravo to Nick for putting himself in great position at 600m and giving himself a chance.
  • categorically
    registered
    8 years ago 08/30/2011 12:21pm CDT
    re: MC Jasper
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    MC Jasper wrote:

    Rudisha played with them. Quick first 200 of 23,8 to get the lead and stay out of trouble, then slowing it down on the second 200, 27,5, splitting 51,3 for 400m and then picking it up on the third 200, 26,6, and then picknick it up à little bit more for the final 200, 26,0 giving him splits of 51.3 and 52.6. Kinda like Kipketer did at 1997 worlds.

    Borza ran very smart and put himself in contention already at the bell. There is someone to learn from NS.

    Agreed. For all the criticism Rudisha has received for past tactical mistakes he absolutely nailed every race this year.

    The final was a brilliant race. He went straight to the front, controlled it, and slowed slightly in the middle to be sure his kick would be there when he needed it.

    Borzo showed he is not just a one-trick pony. Great race by him.

    Kaki's finishing drive to get silver was all strength. He was a clear second best in this race. Rudisha has turned them tables in this rivalry. Can Kaki come back at him next year?

    Symmonds best case scenario in this race was 3rd. With Borzo on top form you could say 4th. He finished 5th after a tactical error in the last 200. But he also didn't have the drive that the others did when he did get free. Not a bad race. He'll learn from it and will still be a medal threat in 2012, especially if an injury gets one of the top guys.
  • toro
    registered
    8 years ago 08/30/2011 12:31pm CDT
    re: wejo
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    Great comments by Symmonds.
    He was completely lucid about his race and his abilities.
    His attitude is very good.
    Understands his limitations but believes he can win.
  • gulls
    8 years ago 08/30/2011 1:19pm CDT
    re: toro
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    The only thing that annoyed me with Symmonds post-race interview is that he said coming up to the final turn he figured no one would be dumb enough to pass him on the right, but then when he felt someone coming he didn't react because that would have meant kicking from 150m
    Later in the interview he said his legs felt great at the end but he was stuck there.
    That was his only shot and he didn't go after it even though his legs were feeling great.

    He did a great job and I love him, but I don't understand why he didn't move out just a bit to ensure he wasn't boxed.
  • no one
    registered
    8 years ago 08/30/2011 1:20pm CDT
    re: asdsa
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    I like watching Symmonds run (but Rudisha more - aesthetically [sp] more appealing). However he's his own worst enemy. He should never never never be in last place - or close to it ... when he does that he seals his fate. He can do that in the USA but these are the big boys - he is NEVER going to run them down. per someone - these are 45 sec 400 guys, gonna outrun him the last 100-150 every time. He frequently gets boxed - he seals his fate.

    If he wants to medal he should have at least three race strategies.

    One, Don't run last - ever,
    Two, don't get boxed (not that hard to prevent),
    Three, be 'up there' with 150 to go.

    He has proven over the last several years that his current approach is not working. I've thought this way for several yrs now.

    and into the mystic it goes
  • Do you people even run?
    8 years ago 08/30/2011 1:25pm CDT
    re: no one
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    no one wrote:
    he's his own worst enemy. He should never never never be in last place - or close to it ... when he does that he seals his fate.

    What? Being in the back on the first lap didn't keep him from moving into PERFECT position with 250 to go. His mistakes were made in the final 200, not the first lap.
  • Noone Else
    8 years ago 08/30/2011 1:35pm CDT
    re: no one
    Forum Index
    no one wrote:

    I like watching Symmonds run (but Rudisha more - aesthetically [sp] more appealing). However he's his own worst enemy. He should never never never be in last place - or close to it ... when he does that he seals his fate. He can do that in the USA but these are the big boys - he is NEVER going to run them down. per someone - these are 45 sec 400 guys, gonna outrun him the last 100-150 every time. He frequently gets boxed - he seals his fate.

    If he wants to medal he should have at least three race strategies.

    One, Don't run last - ever,
    Two, don't get boxed (not that hard to prevent),
    Three, be 'up there' with 150 to go.

    He has proven over the last several years that his current approach is not working. I've thought this way for several yrs now.

    and into the mystic it goes

    I can understand that perspective. But my own perspective is different.

    I think that the poster above who said that Nick is getting the most that he can out of his abilities and that he was a great success on the international scene having established himself as the (pick a number) 5th through 7th best in the world every year is exactly right.

    Kicks almost always come down to strength, not speed. He who has more left wins. As has been posted by others - especially in the 800 - it is not he who speeds up the most who has the winning kick. It is he who slows down the least.

    Nick runs very smart. Check his splits to see that he is in last place during the first 200 not because he is running too slow but because everyone else is running too fast. The fact that he is in the mix at all at the end is partially due to his running his first lap evenly so that he will have as much strength left at the end as possible. If he ever tries the strategy of worrying about being top 3-4 during the first 200 I am pretty sure that the result would not be pretty.
  • runn
    registered
    8 years ago 08/30/2011 1:35pm CDT
    re: Americana
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    Americana wrote:

    Tripjump wrote:

    Let's stop with the what ifs for Symmonds. Is he any better than the 5th-best 800m runner in the world? NO, NO, and NO!!! He got the place he deserved and maybe even a little better than he deserved. He doesn't have any more talent people, he's a good runner, consistently around the 5th or 6th or 7th best 800m runner in the world. That's all he is, and it's all he will ever be. Just look at him physically compared to Rudisha or Kaki or even Borza for that matter. He has gotten A LOT out of himself at this level. In fact, he may be one of the greatest success stories ever on the world stage. But he will NEVER be any better than he is now, and there will always be 5 or so 800m runners better than him. We need to appreciate him for that, and stop the what ifs.

    This ^ is exactly right. Almost to the point of being brilliant.


    Absolutely. And anyone who thinks that being the 5th best in the world at what you do is bad is a loser. I've been running for 40 years, I'd take an Olympic Trials qualifying time, let alone 5th in the world.
  • Reg
    8 years ago 08/30/2011 1:38pm CDT
    re: Do you people even run?
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    Do you people even run? wrote:

    no one wrote:
    he's his own worst enemy. He should never never never be in last place - or close to it ... when he does that he seals his fate.

    What? Being in the back on the first lap didn't keep him from moving into PERFECT position with 250 to go. His mistakes were made in the final 200, not the first lap.


    Yes, he was in what >appeared< to be perfect position w/ ~230-240 to go, and at that point he seems to relax just a bit/gather himself for the final push. I believe Symmonds when he says he didn't think anyone would come around his right side, and looking back that's a mistake. But had he began kicking from over 200m out I just don't think he'd have done any better than 5th. And after watching the race several times I believe 3rd was his had he not gotten boxed. So he wasn't really in perfect position w/ 230 or 250 to go, because that was too early for him to begin kicking and yet we see what happened because he didn't move faster.
  • historian of the sport
    8 years ago 08/30/2011 2:20pm CDT
    re: no one
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    no one wrote:
    One, Don't run last - ever,

    You're right. Dave Wottle tried that in Munich and look what happened ;-)
  • no one
    registered
    8 years ago 08/30/2011 2:52pm CDT
    re: historian of the sport
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    Dave Wottle showed that HE could do it - Nick S hasn't shown that - on the world stage. In fact he has shown he falls short of his own expectations and ... Saying - keep doing the same thing, expecting dif results. His race strategies have not produced the results wants. Pretty simple adjustment in my eyes, historian. If he makes no adjustments I would say he won't make podium running vs big boys. Ample evidence
  • Wheeeeeeeeeeee!!!
    8 years ago 08/30/2011 3:02pm CDT
    re: no one
    Forum Index
    no one wrote:

    Dave Wottle showed that HE could do it - Nick S hasn't shown that - on the world stage. In fact he has shown he falls short of his own expectations and ... Saying - keep doing the same thing, expecting dif results. His race strategies have not produced the results wants. Pretty simple adjustment in my eyes, historian. If he makes no adjustments I would say he won't make podium running vs big boys. Ample evidence

    It's all nice and good to criticize what he did, but how could he have possibly been in a better position with 250 to go?
  • Last Runner
    8 years ago 08/30/2011 3:56pm CDT
    re: williamsrunneruk
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    He kept saying afterwards that he had the legs so I agree with this statement.

    He got boxed because he didn't move with 500 to go. Then the two other runners came up and boxed him.

    This was not a field where he was going to wow the other competitors with a last 100 meter burst. If he had the legs he should have just gone for it at 500 and hung on.
  • Bliheris
    8 years ago 08/30/2011 3:56pm CDT
    re: toro
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    This is how Poland lost WCH medal, thanks Kaki see you on the ring next time, we will pay back for sure

    http://pzla.pl/zdjecia/aktualnosci/mbi20110830_2027_20110830155649.jpg
  • Wheeeeeeeeeeee!!!
    registered
    8 years ago 08/30/2011 4:01pm CDT
    re: Bliheris
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    Bliheris wrote:

    This is how Poland lost WCH medal, thanks Kaki see you on the ring next time, we will pay back for sure

    http://pzla.pl/zdjecia/aktualnosci/mbi20110830_2027_20110830155649.jpg

    That's why avoid getting stuck on the inside at key points in the race.
  • 800 ist der Bomben
    8 years ago 08/30/2011 4:10pm CDT
    re: Wheeeeeeeeeeee!!!
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    Rudisha ist der Hammer.

    It had to be said.
  • asedas
    8 years ago 08/30/2011 4:12pm CDT
    re: amafie
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    I've been clipped just like that with 200 to go in a race. It matters. You don't immediately drop back but it kills your rythym and you just can't finish as well.
  • Bliheris
    8 years ago 08/30/2011 4:17pm CDT
    re: Wheeeeeeeeeeee!!!
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    Kaki left clear space from the inside when Marcin Lewandowski noticed that and wanted to make use of it Kaki made step to the inside to "close the way" and make a use of his elbow.
    I hardly think so it was fair...He pushed Marcin out of the track simply.
    http://pzla.pl/zdjecia/aktualnosci/mbi20110830_2030_20110830155951.jpg
  • Runners
    8 years ago 08/30/2011 6:50pm CDT
    re: Off the Grid
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    Sorry Nick Symmonds. I know you're the most decorated 800M US champion and you you should stay on Rudisha's heels and out kick him the last 200 M if you want to medal. Otherwise they should give you a gold metal in the US before you go for an international even like that..
  • rojo
    cofounder
    8 years ago 08/30/2011 7:03pm CDT
    re: Bliheris
    Forum Index
    Bliheris wrote:

    This is how Poland lost WCH medal, thanks Kaki see you on the ring next time, we will pay back for sure

    http://pzla.pl/zdjecia/aktualnosci/mbi20110830_2027_20110830155649.jpg

    What a great photo. it shows the beauty of the 800. 8 guys all in it.