This whole argument is ridiculous. No one ever said that if you run a lot, you can be an semi-obese runner like the OP. What people claimed, right or wrong, was that if you run a lot then you can eat a lot and still not put on weight. The OP complaining that he was a fat slob and yet couldn't be a good runner is silly.
CuriousC wrote:
My several cents...
In all of the studies ever done on exercise and weight loss, it has been impossible to prove that exercise leads to weight loss... it has NEVER been proven.
Carbohydrate=Fat Accumulation in those more apt to partition food to storage.
Exercise makes you hungrier.
Net calories burned/calories-in-calories-out has NEVER worked for weight loss.
Cleaning up the diet, aka cutting out carbohydrate=fat loss.
Carbohydrate is unnecessary in the human diet (besides possibly fiber, but the jury is still out on that). When has anyone ever suffered from a "carbohydrate deficiency?"
We've been brainwashed as runners (and society)... "healthy whole grains" are a joke. See: Lyon Heart Study<--Mediterranean Diet VS. AHA Diet
In the words of Gary Taubes, "Lance Armstrong rides his bike six hours a day because he's skinny. He's not skinny because he rides his bike six hours a day." Weighing food is not necessary because we aren't balloons that just collect what we eat... our bodies do something with the food. Absent carbohydrate they don't seem to store it.
The thing that makes good runners thin (regardless of diet) is probably the same thing that makes them fast... their bodies use (partition) fuel very well.
Gary Taubes is an absolute buffoon.
Runners do not run "because they're skinny." I started running and I was 230 lbs, now I'm 165. I found out my caloric requirements, sought a 500 calorie deficit every day, and lost weight. What does he mean NEVER been proven? Does he also think there is no proven link between smoking and lung cancer? Does he think there is no proven link between gravity and things falling towards the Earth?
Gary Taubes is an idiot.
If you think Gary Taubes is worth listening to after this interview, you need mental help http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEqhar40TVw
TheProfessor wrote:
This whole argument is ridiculous. No one ever said that if you run a lot, you can be an semi-obese runner like the OP. What people claimed, right or wrong, was that if you run a lot then you can eat a lot and still not put on weight. The OP complaining that he was a fat slob and yet couldn't be a good runner is silly.
I really wish people would read more carefully. I wasn't complaining about anything regarding not being a good runner or not losing weight. I was simply sharing my experience about how I went about my first real attempt to lose weight. Obviously I learned that for me diet is extremely extremely important, even more so than the running. I was successful in shedding the excess weight and getting back to racing shape. I didn't complain about anything. The heart of my post was to point out that the general saying of "Train hard and you're weight should take care of itself" is a huge stretch. Both things matter a lot. For me, diet matters more. Anyway, I'm happy to be back at a healthy running weight and can't wait to do some races. Best of luck everyone with your fitness/racing goals. Now go get some PRs.
On that note, I'm done contributing to this thread. (Although it has seemed to generate a bunch of responses - for better or for worse knowing there are a ton of brutal sarcastic, hating on everyone, judgmental pricks on LR...although it does provide some great entertainment.)
Dude, you were whining because you couldn't eat anything you wanted on a pathetic 6-9 mile workout a day. All you had to do is add another easy run and you could have eaten anything and lost all the weight you wanted.
Or just 8-10 strides before each meal.
Educate yourself on exercise and insulin sensitivity.
You might also want to consider eating the bulk of your carbs right after workouts, or AT NIGHT.
Getting Lean And Fast wrote:
I'm not hoping to be faster. I am faster. (I know this based on my paces during long runs and interval work-outs.)
Okay fine, I'll hedge, FOR ME, diet is the most important factor toward determining my running performance (pretty sure I already stated this).
Oh, and only on LetsRun is 6'0'' 178 lbs "fat".
So, If you were to quit training and focus only on your diet would you be a faster runner?
Of course not. Diet is NOT the most important factor to determine your running performance, or anyones. It is A factor, and for you it was more important than for others, but it is NOT the MOST important.
notathome wrote:
[quote]coach d wrote:
KB is the same height and a few pounds HEAVIER than Lagat.
quote]
Coach D you must be relying on the IAFF numbers, the first ones that came from a bing search. But I'm pretty sure Bekele is about 5'4" and weighs 120 lbs. Here are some references:
http://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/athletes/be/kenenisa-bekele-1.htmlhttp://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer08/fanguide/athlete?athlete=37677http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/ETH/Kenenisa+Bekele/224729And here's a pictture of him next to Lagat:
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=kenenisa+bekele+bernard+lagat&view=detail&id=6FA67D27B095091A7BB254A3D509964DF843632E&first=0&FORM=IDFRIRBTW great shot, that's what it means to be a winner.
Oh yeah, weight matters, DUH
While I agree with you that Coach D is being like runningart in his elite weights, the picture you posted is of K Bekele's brother, not the Bekele in question.
Stop overeating and eat six times a day
Age makes a difference too. I'm in my 50's. I finally had to put together a spreadsheet, calories in and calories out before I could start losing weight.
gsgwgwegwge wrote:
I also get annoyed with people saying "your body will find your proper weight." What does that even mean?
If you're overeating, you're overeating. Don't listen to the chumps
Much like the people who say, "your body will find the proper running form". That's bull as well. Some people improve form over the years but most people just become more and more set in the bad form they started out with.
I ate massive amounts of food in college. I stayed right around the same weight the whole time. 6' 145 Obviously eating fruits and veggies and a balanced diet is helpful. But a lot of people can get away with eating anything around that age.
It wasn't uncommon for me to eat a whole stouffers lasagna in one sitting. Or a whole large pizza.
I had a trainer complain I was too skinny, once. I rattled off everything I ate the day before. After about 15 seconds of standing there with her jaw on the ground she just uttered something about it not being fair to be able to eat that much.
According to Taubes, which of the following is true: Henry Rono got fat because he ran. Henry Rono stopped running because he got fat.
Pepsi wrote:
6-9 miles a day is hard training? I must've missed that memo.
Take a conservative estimate of 100 calories burned per mile ran (it can fluctuate based on a number of factors, but using that as a base). Your 6 mile run would BARELY burn off a Big Mac (http://nutrition.mcdonalds.com/nutritionexchange/nutritionfacts.pdf), let alone the fries and soda you shoved in your pie-hole along with it.
I would take down 3-4 pints of Ben & Jerry's a week and still lost weight in college b/c the 1300+ calories in the entire pint were burned and then some by the 14+ miles I was putting in. That was not every day, no. Usually did that on workout days(3-4 mi warm-up, workout, 3-4 mi cool-down) and long run days. But, then again, I wasn't stupid enough to down a whole pint of ice cream on my easy 4-6 mile days.
Moral of the story is, your training output wasn't matching your diet's input. Should you go completely strict and eat celery sticks for every meal, no, but neither should you cram the cookies in whenever you feel like it. Had you used some common sense and shown just the tiniest bit of restraint you could still enjoy some of the more unhealthy foods out there while seeing fitness improvements and the weight you desire
From what you're saying, you averaged roughly 10-12 mi/day (unless you were working out 4 or 5 days a week, which I doubt), yet you're knocking a guy who's saying he runs 6-9 mi/day? Get over yourself. No one cares how much you run. The mileage doesn't reflect the intensity.
Perhaps you are pigging out or have the world's slowest metabolism; the average person who runs 6-9 miles a day does not have to watch their weight. I run half that amount and eat whatever I want. Although at 5'11" 165lbs, I don't exactly resemble a typical distance runner, but I am happy with the way I look and perform.
Btw, when people say "eat whatever you want", basically that means you can eat 'normal', no restrictions, but it does not mean you can be a pig. And, you are correct, weight can play a major factor in performances and as a distance runner you should be slim. But, it is different for everyone, trying to get real skinny is not necessarily going to make you faster and gaining a few pounds is not necessarily going to make you slower. I believe if you get in enough mileage and eat healthy, your body will gravitate to what is optimal...this is the same advice I give to young ladies who are trying to artificially control their weight.
seppokaitainen wrote:
I ate massive amounts of food in college. I stayed right around the same weight the whole time. 6' 145 Obviously eating fruits and veggies and a balanced diet is helpful. But a lot of people can get away with eating anything around that age.
It wasn't uncommon for me to eat a whole stouffers lasagna in one sitting. Or a whole large pizza.
+1. When I hit my mid 30s, I couldn't get away with that type of eating anymore... In college, I ate HUGE meals (really the equivalent of 2-3 big meals) three times per day. I too could eat an entire large pizza in one sitting and still down a pint or more of ice cream. I didn't gain weight, but I had many workouts where I had to make a "pit stop" in the middle.
You have to be fit to run, but you don't run to get fit.
Only the young and lucky can get away with exercising and eating whatever you want and staying thin. But thin does not always equal healthy either.
Alan
Getting Lean and Fast,
I think you're on the right track, but don't get obsessed with the weight-loss, or see it as the only route to getting faster.
My story is similar to yours...
I ran fresh/soph cross-country in HS (16:30 5k @150lbs) before quitting to focus on off-season strength training for basketball. Didn't get back into running till grad school, and by that time I was 190lbs from lifting and working construction (I'm 6 ft. tall). I completely replaced weights with running, and lost 20lbs almost immediately. I raced a 10k and beat my HS 5k PR in the first half (serious positive split). At that point, I was completely hooked on running and began to think, "man, if I can run 34mins @ 170lbs, imagine what I can do @ 150lbs." I continued to train and improve till I reached 160lbs, then, something amazing happened... I started getting slower!
160lbs was the magic number, and as soon as I dipped below that, I started feeling weak. If I gained a couple lbs, I would feel good again. I continue to experiment, but I am close to accepting that 160lbs is my racing weight, and future improvements will have to come through strength.
My advice: don't worry about getting down to 148lbs. Just keep fueling properly and training hard. Set performance goals, not weight goals. You may find that you are faster at 155lbs than 148lbs.
i can understand people wanting to get pretty lean in order to race fast. just keep in mind the following:
if you are running high mileage, while it's good to eat healthy it's also extremely important to MAKE SURE YOU EAT ENOUGH dammit!!!! because If you get too light when you're running lots and not eating enough, you can get low bone density and then be prone to stress fractures and other injuries.
I've learned that it's a good idea when you're running high mileage to eat lots of (mostly healthy)calories and not be too strict about what kinds of foods you eat. include a good amount of fat so that the vitamin D/calcium! and other fat soluables can absorb!
i don't even try to eat super healthy and i'm still 5'10, 119 lbs. if you run enough you will lose weight automatically...
Weight is a huge factor for me. I had low single-digit body fat (3.5% in water tank test) in college and ran decent, but at longer distances (over 10,000m) I found that losing 10 more pounds as a post-collegiate runner made a huge positive difference. (I am 5'10" and was 135 lbs. in college but got down to 125 after - wish I was still there, but I'm back to 135.) Basically, when people start asking if I'm sick, I know I'm getting fit and fast.